crazedloon's page

I hope you see the irony of asking if the definition of solid changing as related to your interpretations of the rules.

Arguing from a completely RAW perspective solid is anything which would be described as per the traditional definition. In this case the ground, dirt, stone and the like. Solid prevent movement as well as attacks as before stated, provided the solid object is between the two respective characters squares.

Specific trumps general. So in this case the specific rule of earth glide allows the elemental to move through the solid, but it does not overrule the general rule that you can not attack through it.

It is a solid barrier, the fact that the elemental can move through it does not change the fact that it is a solid barrier.

The reason the elemental can attack while in the ground has nothing to do with its ability to move through it. It can attack from the ground (and equally be attacked back) because when determining if you can attack you measure from the edges of squares occupied to the targets square that they occupy. In this case since the elementals square ends at the surface the space between it and the target is not blocked by that solid barrier (there is no ground between them) and thus line of effect can be made. It is also this reason that prevents the elemental from attacking with reach.

This is a completely RAW answer of course and it assumes your squares are start at the edge of the ground and thus there is no "solid barrier" between the first square in the ground and the one in which your character walks.

I would say its a little of both worlds for earth elementals and attacking, and really any creature which can move through solid objects.

When determining if you can attack a creature you must determine if you threaten that creature. You threaten every square adjacent to you, this includes those above and bellow and at an angle from your original square.

Next you have to draw line of effect to determine if the target has total cover. for this you must determine if "you cannot draw any line from your square to your target's square without crossing a solid barrier."

If you can draw line of effect then you can attack that square provided it is within your threatened area.

So adding all of this up an earth elemental can attack out of the ground provided its top most edge of volume meets the ground, but the PC can equally attack it. However each will do so with cover as each can not draw a line from every corner to every other corner without passing through a solid barrier (in this case the ground).

Now if the earth elemental has reach he can not use it to attack a creature on the ground without being adjacent to the target because the ground blocks line of effect and thus it needs to move its square adjacent negating that "barrier"

I _much_ prefer the section in the Universal Monster Rules that say:

"If no caster level is specified [for a spell-like ability], the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice."

Can we just assume that the rules for Spell-like abilities aren't detailed in two different sections with different rules, and go with the Bestiary version? :D

You can not because that is referring to racial hit dice, a classed race (like human) have 0 HD as far as that rule is concerned.

poorly phrased. It's saying (or means or is trying to say) that the caster level is the level of the class that granted the ability.

Why do you assume that is the intention?

By the letter of the rules that is not the case again here is the quote

"If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is gained."

The first half determines equivalent spell level "If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast" though the kinetecist actually gives all of its spell likes a spell level so this is unneeded.

the second half is the problem "and is cast at the class level the ability is gained." which indicates the CL does not actually increase. It does not for example say it is cast with a CL equal to the class level of the class which grants the ability.

Hate to necro a post but this question has come up recently in a local group.

Does the ruling in this thread mean that the Caster level of the blast is always 1 and the other spell likes would be 2x level of the ability itself? The reason I read it this way is because the quoted text states "and is cast at the class level the ability is gained."

What about abilities which emulate spells, this rule does not apply for instance to Unraveling Infusion which emulates dispel magic. Does this mean you only ever get a d20 vs the CL of the target spell?

The average Kineticist takes roughly 3 rounds to kill a CR = APL target at the levels I've looked at (6th and 11th) vs 2 for something like a Fighter.

The difference is the fighter lacks any of the utility the kineticist now sports, and does not get to hit touch AC which means the DPR calculations becomes wacky with many targets which rely on heavy natural armor or other things to bump AC high or DR which the fighter may not be able to bypass. The former means that the 1 round supposed loss of damage is not so relevant and the latter means in many cases the DPR on the kinetesist is better than the fighters.

the car analogy was f$$#ing stupid when someone used it a few days ago, and remains so now. I see no reason to dignify it with a real response.

didn't realize someone else used the same analogy, but good to see you can react appropriately to a completely accurate analogy. We as players spend time and money on this product, therefor it is completely reasonable for us to wish that product to work all the way through its intended "design."

I don't play PFS. I do play Adventure paths.

There's a reason adventure paths end at 16th and PFS ends at 12th, however. The game BREAKS at high levels.

CR is meaningless after abut CR 14. Damage output becomes so massive that most dedicated damage dealers can take on "Boss" creatures and drop them in one round. This is where the term "rocket tag" comes into play.

I then will ask you do you think that that means the game is healty and well designed or that there are some flaws with its high levels. Equally in most published material this happens much lower than 14 when discussing "well" built characters.

The Rogue has an ability that allows him to CDG enemies at-will at 20th level. Why is (50d6+50)×1.5 unreasonable in the face of that?

seeing as the target gets a fort save, which has an average of 22+ at CR 20, I would indeed say it is still unreasonable because there is no save to not fall over dead due to damage

1.) The game goes off the rails around 15th. Capstones are MEANT to be incredibly powerful.

Saying this does not allow the design of a class to just go off the rails, or more precisely should not allow it to go off the rails. That would be like selling a car and saying it can go to 100mph but it falls apart at 75. It is not the drivers fault that they wish to use their car to its full extent, it is the cars design that is a problem.

That being said the damage output even at lower levels has some major flaws, but I really rather not have to look up all your chosen level for average AC and HP to prove that point.

2.) The average character should be able to solo a CR = APL challenge easily. Any martial class can drop a guy in a single full attack like that. And aren't limited to doing it 2-3 times per day and dropping their maximum health by 60 points with every shot.

I presume you have never played any of the adventure paths or PFS. This is not the designers intention. I will not argue that you can not do it, because you can. All of the published material is written with the idea that you are using a 4+ man party and that you will all contribute to each fight, not that 1 character solos encounters.

There could be a disconnect between the Class designers and the adventure designers but if that is the case than there is a problem, and this is why I asked a designer if he thinks those numbers are reasonable.

As to your quip about a melee fighter being able to drop most CR equivalent thing in 1 full attack the kineticist in the example was not using a full attack he was using an AOO, his full attack has even sillier numbers associated with it.

Don't forget doubling it for even more damage! Omnicide is a new blast, so technically it is only associated with the universals. However, imagine an empowered omnicide whip full attack!!

Annihilator: "Sure buddy, you could provoke an AoO from my reach if you want...for 484 damage!"

As a designer does this honestly seem reasonable to you?

Just to crunch some simple numbers you have +15 bab + 4 blast training + 6 overflow + 3 for overflow size bonus for a total of +28 before to hit stat or group buffs.

looking at ACs for CR 20 targets gives us an average AC of 37 (range 31-41) with an average health of 365 (range 310 -418)

Our Kineticist without stats needs a 9 to hit the average AC with the AOO, add in a little WBL gives him +5 to hit (belt and tome) so as long as he started with a +3 in his to hit stat he is auto hitting the average AC. Than thanks to other doing the average damage we see he 1 shots these CR 20 creatures. Thats right what our core rulebook claims is an "average" difficulty for a full part of PCs is an incidental AOO for the kineticist who isn't even trying to max his combat stats.

I honestly want to know how that seems like a properly designed class to you?

You can use it once, and it forms a blade,so it forms one blade. You could TWF with a kinetic blade and like a normal weapon, though. You totally do get iteratives and haste attacks, and even AoOs with the whip.

Thanks for the reply

So to clarify, you can not double kenetic blade to get 2 blades in which to TWF with blasts only?

You can't quicken it, since it's already not its own action (though I definitely have quickened a ride the blast and followed up with a blade). If you double it, you get two blades, which I suppose is the only way to use it with TWF, though this doesn't seem worth it to me overall, since you'd need feats you'd rarely use.

Could you explain the infusion text which implies you can use it once as part of a full attack to make your attacks.

I mean the text of the infusion is vague enough as is without adding interpretations which are not supported by text. After all what does this mean?

"You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade." (bold is mine)

Does it mean I can make only 1 attack as a blast, thus using it Once in the action or; does it mean you can only have 1 blade useful in a full attack but still get your iterative and since metakenisis gives you extra blast in 1 action but not extra actions (which this infusion is used as part of) it does not allow you to TWF?

On top of the actual infusion text problem you have the fact that to TWF you need to full attack (a full round action) and the metakenesis ability specifically works with standards and swifts, which is not the correct action type.

I'm not sure where you got the impression that the main focus were the Jeweled Sages—from the promotional text, or perhaps from your local GM as he explained what the scenario was about?

Like Ascalaphus said, Tahonikepsu and Amenopheus are seizing the opportunity here. Since they have operatives going to Tar Kuata after the Sky Key, they want to use the occasion to observe the monks and do some research about an ancient Jeweled Sage (since Tar Kuata has existed for so long, their records go thousands of years back). Again, this is only a sidequest.

I'll admit I did not expect destiny of sands level sage plot however I was expecting something and the letter from Amenopheus was what lead me to hope for some quality plot advancement. It was that letter which lead to the disappointment in the plot advancement because nothing actually involving the sages, or anyone who could qualify, at least in my opinion, happens and no history is actually revealed about that "subplot"

.... where you lacked in skills, you made up in abundant combat prowess, which seems to have made the second part a breeze.

Well the last combats being a breeze had less to do with party composition and more to do with the actual assets available to the baddies, Ill discuss that further down.

I'm not saying that you need to fill all traditional roles to play a scenario, but usually encounters are designed considering a wide array of options for the PCs, so when one of the "types" is missing, things can get a little more difficult. If you had an all-rogue party, you'd probably have made through the trials with a hand tied to the back, but suffered in the second part.

That of course is the best design for a scenario, and would not fault a scenario which emphasizes diversity of character abilities. However if I recall the test correctly, of course this is based on memory and only being a player.

test 1: Knowledge skill or bluff, this is something an arcane or skill monkey could manage
test 2: Dex test followed by a STR test most characters will fail one of these (even at DC 10) because few characters need both these stats high (only exception being TWF fighters)
Test 3: Perception followed by STR the first can be managed by a slew of characters (as it is the most important skill in the game) but again the second is
something only the melee characters will excel at (or even have a better than average chance of passing)
test 4: Acrobatics with a Fort or Will, The first is most likely going to be on skill monkeys with a few combat characters having it but those skill monkeys
will tend to fail that second test and piled on top it gets harder and harder and requires 3 tests which means you will most likely roll poorly somewhere
test 5: Climb followed by combat. Well this one is actually in the skill monkeys wheel house (provided they took climb) as they tend to not need as much armor or that which they do wear has low ACP.

So from the look at the tests the best characters for each test is

test 1 Arcane (stat, skill point, and class skill)
test 2 Melee (stats)
test 3 melee (stats and most likely skill to have)
test 4 melee? (this is really no ones wheel house as its redundant checks mean bad rolls will happen and few builds havew the skill and saves)
test 5 Skill monkey

This means
-the Divine caster, who may be able to step up for the first test, is likely not feeling useful/successful and they already tend to be the relegated to band aid (often not at the players choice) so they get nothing from half a scenario
-the skill monkey is honestly not really useful for these tests as the tend to lack one stat or save to actually be successful
-Arcane is only useful in the first and then gets to feel left out
-melee seem to be the best suited for the majority of the tests (I guess the reason they are monk tests?)

but then the rest of the scenario seems to be in their wheelhouse as well so seems to emphasis one type of character

Just out of curiosity, do you happen to know how many Trial Points you accrued by the end of the scenario? Was it less than 6?

I believe we managed more than 6 less then 12 only the samurai at our table managed to roll well enough to pass most of the tests which was our tables only saving grace.

In any case, if your group wanted to assign one person to attempt each challenge, that would still work, as long as they did well individually. However, if everyone takes part in the trials, it is more likely that you will perform better collectively. So, you don't need to be a monk to contribute to the group's success by nailing all the trials, since each character has a chance of helping the group at some point.

I guess with some good rolling this is true, but at least at my table it boiled down to 3 players flailing about miserably failing test after test.

About the final fight, Tasutek has a wand of searing light in the upper tier and a wand of sound burst in the lower tier, so he has the option to strike from a distance... I'm curious about what happened in your final combat.

well in the low tier his wand is pretty useless as the combat happens in such a large space that the 30ft range of the spell wont manage to hit anyone until they can close the distance to melee or worse a ranged party can simply pick him off at range where he can do nothing.

All in all, again I apologize

nothing to apologize for, it was not entirely horrible and it is of course part of the game.

i have to disagree with what seems to be generally positive reviews. I played in this so it may be chocked up to GM interpretations or running, however I found the majority of the scenario generally frustrating and unfulfilling.

-Group info low tier 4 oracle (me), 3 paladin, 4 figther (archer), 4 pregen samurai (oddly enough had the least problems throughout), 3 magus hexcrafter, 5 witch

-Initial expectations was that I would have good chance to explore some scarab sage, and thus Osirion, story. This was exciting as I was playing my Osirion Oracle who worships the ancient pantheon.

-The initial briefing left enough vague that my initial impression was not changed and I went into this with high hopes which were reinforced by the faction letter, which had me curious if we were going to find a new jeweled sage
-Initial interaction with the monks was reasonable but this was were my initial expectation began to crumble and what began as good RP became frustrating.

The tests
-"Test 1" was highly dependent on a knowledge religion roll, which the entire table including myself failed (low rolls not low stats) and it was further frustrating as my character had no interest in Irori and had been expecting some Osirion history. So we were left pulling some eastern mysticism from our rear ends, my RP of disagreeing with the idea of 1 path to perfection being insufficient to pass the test, luckily we had a player playing a samurai to give us the mysticism hocum.
-Test 2 the board test was a continuation of general poor table rolls. This was the only test I managed to luck through but than had to take back a successful test when I realized my haunted curse meant the task was impossible, ghosts tossing the board 10ft away seem to make breaking them impossible.
-Test 3 again some more poor table rolls. This time the need for stat checks forces anyone who may have a low score (whether it is due to dump stat or racial mods) to just flub these rolls, in my case some smart RP, tactics were rewarded for the first roll (create water to add to the sounds made by the monk as he approached) but than low str meant the second roll was failed.
-Test 4 at this point my character had had enough of these silly tests which had little to nothing to do with his great nations past and I refused to participate (thus failing this test). This test was even more ridiculous as it required so many continued rolls that essentially you were bound to fail and only through pure luck a single character managed to pass.
-Test 5 continued the trend of tasks I was unsuited for and left a bitter taste in my, and my characters mouth. This is the sort of challenge that would have been best served as a group objective sending the competent climbers to secure a rope for those less competent. Instead I was left looking at a -7 to climb checks and wondering why I should even bother. Sure I have other characters who could manage with no trouble (heck in 1 level, achieved after this scenario, this oracle could achieve it easily with levitate) but that should not be a requirement to enjoy the scenario.

These "trials" felt essentially like an exercise in putting a square peg in a round hole. You don't ask a monk to heal the party or buff the group so why is a oracle, or any other class, being asked to be a monk to succeed at a mission.

To add insult to injury we, myself and another Sage player, are expected to decide one of these monks should be worthy of a sage jewel? They showed nothing but self righteous, bull headedness that their way was the right way. But we are expected to entrust them with a gem that will teach them things completely at odds with thier way of life, thinking and "enlightenment."

Continuing we have the fight at the summit of the tower which feels like an exercise of wasting time. This is because our witch managed to land a misfortune which nerfed the rolls of the monk to the point were we were not swiftly dispatched. Instead we ran around the platform attempting to pin down the monk finally succeeding in doing enough damage to knock her our (though I think the GM may have shortened the fight due to time and the general pointless feeling that had grown from round after round of failed attacks on her part and failed ones on ours.) This is most definitely a group specific reaction to this encounter. It felt long and drawn out because our bad rolls as a group continued only this time to be joined by bad rolls on the GMs part. But as for story progression why have the group fight this monk when the next day you want to have the pathfinders go deal with your bandit problem? Isn't that test enough for their strength of arms?

The rest of the scenario after the frustrating beginning was disappointing. One relatively easy fight with antipaladins who had issues landing any relevant blows. A fun but underwhelming bypassed trap being sprung by a familiar. And finally a boss fight on a map which was complex for no reason, and only served to slow the fight down while the boss had nothing to take advantage of the distance or slow speed due to the layout.

In the end the other Sage player and I endorsed Dhiara because she was the only NPC we did not meet and thus could not be completely disappointed by her characters perspective. At worst she will blend in with other pathfinders being an adventurer.

I began with the hope that I may be able to enjoy a faction based mission with some potential for history; but ended with disappointment that nearly none of the RP had anything to do with the actual faction that the scenario is supposedly endorses and frustrated about over half of the game being tied up in "RP" that boiled down to rolls which equated to putting a square peg in a round hole.

Sorry if this seems too harsh it is just 1 players perspective

I just wanted to point out that you're confusing terms here. Burn =/= hit points. At 20th level, for example, each 1 point of Burn has the consequence of inflicting 20 nonlethal damage. You also say "ignoring Con"; you can only take a number of points of Burn equal to 3 + CON mod, so the amount of Burn you can take is constant at all levels, only rising as your stat rises. The amount of nonlethal damage you can take is what is shifting. My math shows that when you factor in your CON score, a point of Burn fluctuates between causing about 1/12 to 1/9 of your total hit points in nonlethal damage.

I'll admit I was ignoring the 3+con because I forgot and was giving the class the benefit of the doubt that it could burn itself unconscious. With that reminder the issue then lies in the fact that to use all of the classes power for the day (so 3+ con burn) it leaves the class with only 43 HP at level 20. Seems a little unreasonable when you consider the summoner (again for convenience ) can summon the same number of monster from the level 9 list without losing a single HP. Yes non lethal is not lethal but when lethal+nonlethal+1 = HP total you are just as unconscious as if lethal +1 = HP which means you are just as useless to the party.

You know Infusion Specialization reduces burn as level gets higher, right?

so until 5th level the class slowly gets worse, if it would like to use its class features to the max and at level 5 it can only mitigate 1 option and only for the form/substance you grabbed at level 1 so that if you wish to use both a form and substance you require level 8 to not take the burn again only on your level 1 options.

at level 6 for instance you can grab your first higher tier substance/form and you take 3 burn for its use, even with a a move action to reduce burn and your specialization focused for form/substance you can only use that class feature 5+con times a day and this is assuming you never get hit between uses or that your enemy does not ready to attack you when you are gathering power. Admittedly 5+con is quite a few uses for your highest level power (a good comparison is the summoners summon monster which is 3+cha) but other classes do not become weaker when using class features. Also there is as I have said the fact that you can use your highest level power less often than you could at level 1. Further this is also assuming you did not want to actually combine form and substance because than you can only use it 2+ con/2 times and that is with a 1 burn other.

Essentially it is nice that you reduce the burn some but it is still not enough to scale well.

And like a spell caster, the idea assumes your actually putting worth while attention into your "casting" stat. Since every point of con, gives you hp worth a point of burn and raises your burns per day.

I ignored con for my example because it gives a static boost no matter your level to the amount of burn you can take (which is good) but does not actually increase your burn threshold beyond level 1

I will probably rehash some thoughts and ideas already discussed but this thread has gotten so unwieldy as to be hard to keep up. But just some thoughts after reading through the class and then watching it played both as a fellow player and as GM.

1.the class lacks versatility.
-I think an increase in skills/level would be a great change as well as a larger list of class skills to allow the class to contribute in non combat situations.
-Also the lack of out of combat wild talents, or the delay until level 6, pigeon holes the class further into a combat class (which may be the reason so many people think its BAB is insufficient) I hope this is due to only a few of the wild talents being previewed however for a real test of the class it is these utility wild talents which interest me as a player.

2.The blast types (touch vs normal) need variety. As it stands the minor loss of damage for touch blasts is not sufficient to make the choice of normal attacks desirable (unless you are looking at a character idea which leaves you with only a normal attack)
-give bonuses or effect changes for the normal attacks
-give a touch and normal attack for each element and give advantages to each choice (touch hits easier but normal has more versatility/damage/status effect)

3. At first I liked the concept of burn, however upon further thought I to think it is a little much. My main concern is that the amount of burn you can actually take decreases as you level but the amount of burn you are likely going to take increases. to explain my logic look at a level 1 Kineticist vs a level 3 average HP. Ignoring con the level 1 kineticist can take 8 points of burn, 1 per HP, in contrast the level 2 can only take 6 points, 3x6 = 18 average HP. This is in contrast to every other class where their features grow exponentially. Ether the class requires an easier time mitigating burn or the burn needs to scale slower. If the move action mitigated the entire burn on a single chosen form or essence rather than 1 burn that would be a step in the correct direction but even then it limited. 1 burn /2 levels would help in the case above you are looking at 8 burn for level 1 and 9 for level 3.

Overall I like the class I just wish it had a little more versatility both in wild talents and blasts and that its class feature actually scaled properly.

If the general opinion is that the touch attack blast do not have the desired reliability than there would be a appreciable problem. As far as I can see and as far as the opinions posited here it does not seem that many if anybody believes the touch attacks have a problem.

The simplest solution is to simply give a touch attack to each energy type which is a simple thing to justify in fluff.

Than if the desire is to make every blast desirable (rather then relegating players to simply picking the touch blast) give a reasonable bonus to the non touch attacks. examples may include

-force: give a damage increase for larger objects or flat footed for using objects in the environment.
-air: swap the air and electric attack type and give the electric a bonus to hit vs metal targets
-earth: provide difficult terrain for anyone hit, or entangled or some other fluff appropriate status effect
-Fire: provide the ability to bypass resistance with the normal attack version.

There is no reason a "casting" class should have full BAB, and there are obvious other problems with the class which have little to do with the BAB (increase utility and skills come to mind) but that is beyond the scope of this discussion and should not be used as an excuse for full BAB

As far as touch attacks, it's true they don't scale well but that an even better reason to just switch to a full BAB. If you need a 2 to hit touch AC is it a boost to switch it to a full BAB and STILL need a 2? After a while, touch is pretty much an auto-hit and doesn't change from 3/4 to full BAB

In my opinion this is the problem with the class (and a few others) having such an easy time to hit should not be the norm for any class, as it defeats the purpose of many combat encounters and if you wish to just bypass AC as a whole than you should be hitting saves rather than AC.

SwaOshi wrote:

There is no need for full BAB, the CR system as a whole is not tiered in a manner where touch AC scales well. What this means is that as the Keneticists levels there to hit increases but the enemies AC does not appreciably increase.

Many of the blasts don't target touch.

a fact which I addressed at the end of my post

There is no need for full BAB, the CR system as a whole is not tiered in a manner where touch AC scales well. What this means is that as the Keneticists levels there to hit increases but the enemies AC does not appreciably increase.

looking at an average 5th level Keneticist with a 16 dex (not outlandish for a 2 stat class) and their BAB as it stands garners a +6 to hit, which vs the average CR 5 target is roughly a 70% hit rate (taking the general touch AC of 12 which is roughly the average) or for a "tough" challenge of CR 8 it is roughly a 50% hit chance (taking a much higher average thanks to some high Touch challenges setting the target roughly around 16)

This is of course missing extra things such as cover for allies in the way and in combat penalties which give a -8 to the attack. The former can be mitigated by positioning (which though not always an option is part of the challenge of the game) and the later by a feat meaning this is a negligible problem. And of course this is ignoring any bonuses from feats like point blank, feeling the burn, or spells such as bless aiding further in that role.

So if people really have a problem with the BAB (and two of the three keneticists I have seen play have not had a problem) the best solution in my opinion is to give the keneticist a few bonus feats (ranged feats are a little bit of a tax on character building)

The other problem is that the above holds true for the Touch attacks but the normal attack options will have more problems hitting. For this a simple addition of the touch attack option for each element and giving a marked advantage to the non touch attacks (bonuses to hit for target type or objects use to throw ect.)

Ran this last night, at the low tier and much like everyone else it ran long. I ran a table of 7 as to not have an odd man out so there was some added time due to an extra player but it mostly boils down to a long mod.

A few things of note

-Mythic tiers make the combat rather impossible to truly challenge the players. Among 7 target for the Critters to attack 3 have mirror dodge negating any form of physical attack, 2 have epic DR, 1 has Fast healing 10 (on top of the DR), 1 has mythic sanctuary, and even the the basic chronicle sheet gives you "DR 15" vs a single attack. The Behir had the most potential for threatening the PCs but due to PC placement (completely randomly as they all failed to notice its approach) left the only targets in range the fast healer or mirror dodger and the fast healer quickly cut it up from the inside (he got swallowed only because it would look cool for the PCs)

-Mythic Charisma makes the diplomacy to get the Aspis to join the pathfinders laughable.

-This was my first chase scene (as player or GM) but I thought it went rather well and believe the PCs enjoyed it as much as I did. It took a few to many explanations of how mythic points would contribute to the chase (even with printed rules handouts) contributing somewhat to the slow play. However from the horror stories I have heard of other chase scenes the ability for PCs to clear with mythic points is rather cool and the chase acted as a mythic point drain (in a good way since the above problem did not go away so the less points available the better)

-For the puzzle I realized the most likely cause of the white light refracting into colors was it being bounced through the giant crystal door or the Amenopheus and some returning to the points in the room, and that is how I described it to the PCs. Further I informed the PCs of the checks they could make to aid in figuring out the puzzle. Further a low Initiative roll of the guardians meant that the PCs got to start attempting the puzzle before I revealed the guardians which encouraged them to continue trying to solve the puzzle (which they did a few rounds before they would have killed the second guardian). Once the PCs had made the most relevant checks (knowing what gems where where) I also had a few of the positions project wildly incorrect colors to further illustrate to the PCs an incorrect placement so that they did not have to keep referencing their notes for puzzle clues mid combat.

-Greedy and paranoid PCs managed to get the entire group watched from beyond which was a fun upside of the entire scenario.

I would hope in the future if there are more scenarios with Mythic the PCs gain a more limited ability set (the chronicle "template" should have been enough for this scenario ) or the encounters need to be properly equipped. Also I did quite a bit of prep for this before hand, including highlighting important text amongst the walls of text to be able to quickly scan for important info (a thorough read through prior to running meant I had the summery of each section in my head and only needed the key checks and descriptions hidden in the text).

Overall I enjoyed the scenario but wished it had been a little more challenging to the PCs, on my first read through I assumed it would be more of a nail bitter but upon seeing mythic unleashed on the unsuspecting NPCs it was too close to a cake walk for comfort. The PCs had a good time as the ran around trying to 1 up each other in ridiculously easy tasks