Class Deck Merisiel's Forger power


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


Merisiel has this power in her Forger role:

When you would discard (□ or bury) (□ or banish) a weapon, you may perform the action with a blessing (□ or any card) instead.

It looks like Damiel had a similar FAQ that errata'd his ability to be only when he played the card, so should Merisiel have the same FAQ applied? It seems that the same issues (banishing a weapon when failing to acquire it) would apply to her as well.

Of course, banishing a weapon when playing it is really rare (the Javelins are the only case I can think of off the top of my head.)


I can't be sure, but I think the "when played" clause is left out of here on purpose, especially since she still has to perform the action with another card. It's a more powerful type of benefit, but has a higher cost so it balances out. So this can be useful in cases where a few monsters say you have to discard weapons for damage first if you have them.


The issue with Damiel was that you recharged instead of banishing, so failing to acquire an alchemical card sent it to the bottom of your deck for free. In this case, you'd have to banish a blessing from your hand (unless you took all three feats and could use any card from your hand) to shuffle the card back into the location it came from. Not really game breaking. That would have to be a pretty awesome weapon to get me to permanently throw away cards just to maybe get another shot at it on another explore.


What's telling you to shuffle the weapon back in, though? If the power does let you banish a blessing instead of a weapon you failed to acquire, what rule are you following in deciding what to do with the weapon afterwards?

(Actual inquiry, not dismissive)

Sovereign Court

borodino21 wrote:

What's telling you to shuffle the weapon back in, though? If the power does let you banish a blessing instead of a weapon you failed to acquire, what rule are you following in deciding what to do with the weapon afterwards?

(Actual inquiry, not dismissive)

This is a great point. If you banish a blessing on a failed acquire, there is still nothing even remotely indicating you shuffle the weapon back in. You do nothing with it, which didn't make sense. I'd say the power is supposed to be when played only.

The fact that banishing is rare is probably part of why it's the last feat on the chain.


Hmm... Personally, I'd guess it isn't supposed to be just when played. It is supposed to cover situations where Merisiel might banish a weapon to close a location and let her swap a blessing (or another card) for it. But, it does have the same problem as Damiel. (Though I personally would have liked his power to apply to things he banished when he didn't play them, as long as it didn't apply to cards he was trying to acquire.)

The interesting thing is, if you were to try to apply it to a weapon you are trying to acquire, you still wouldn't know what to do with the weapon from the location deck.

This leads to an interesting thing I've often thought about. I wish there was a term that covered "cards in your deck, hand, discard pile, buried, or displayed." Something like "in your possession" would do the trick. Just to differentiate between your cards and the cards in a location. Then, this power could say "When you would discard (□ or bury) (□ or banish) a weapon in your possession, you may perform the action with a blessing (□ or any card) instead."

Because, it makes sense that Merisiel is passing things off as weapons even when she isn't playing them. A monster tells her to bury a weapon for failing a check? Yeah, this isn't a Mattock. It is a weapon. Trust me. Or if Damiel has to banish an item to close a location? That's fine, he'll just make a new Potion of Healing.

Sovereign Court

If we want it to include things like closed, you could always say "for a power", or even "from your hand".

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

Added to FAQ.


Um, I found a similar issue with Meliski's Gambler role. Maybe I should dig up all the powers that have this thing.

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