In my campaign there is a lot going on story wise and the short version is that I'm getting a GM'd version of the Monstrous Companion so I can get a Pegasus but level it like an animal companion.
A question has arisen however about flying speed. The Monstrous Mount feat page (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/monstrous-mount) works pretty much the same way to what we are looking to do save for that it provides starting statistics whereas we are going off of the Pegasus bestiary page. It has two flying mounts available, the Griffin and the Hippogriff. Under both it requires the mount to reach level 7 in order to be able to hold the rider when flying and even then it only flies at half speed.
So my question is assuming the weight is kept low enough to allow flight (light encumbrance, light armor), how fast should the Pegasus be able to fly? Would it be its normal fly speed or would it be half like a griffin/hippogriff under the Monstrous Mount rules?
This is one area of the game that needs some work, so right now it's mostly in the GM's area.
They could buy the mount straight out, with set HPs, and get to follow the encumbrance rules for flight rate. The mount has a set HP total and isn't gonna improve unless you come up with a price for improved mounts or mounts with more HD.
I think basically with the Monstrous Companion rules they were looking to scale the beast with level as the creature is a class function rather than a purchased mount (thus free with improving Hit Dice and abilities rather than set $GP purchase and set HPs). I would hope at some point the creature would follow the encumbrance rules for light/med/heavy loads and get its full movement rate at a light load while flying.
Mastery comes in at 7th level opening the flying mount ability at half. I'd place a second "mastery" with regular flight speed somewhere in the 12-14th level range.
You'll also have to scale the creature's advancement past the first "bump".
You might want to scan the Homebrew section of the boards and see if there's some advice there...
(adding)
like leadership and eidolons, extra critters under the PCs control can throw a mokeywrench in game balance, especially if they focus on adding power to the extra critter and that extra critter is free or unkillable. So it's an area where you should be conservative and careful as there are game balance issues.
What's the difference between a hippogriff and a pegasus? One has a beak and lion's claws, the other has a horsey face and forehooves. As for wings, pretty much the same.
Therefore, as for carrying a rider, pretty much the same.
OR, if you prefer game mechanics, the creators of that feat wanted you to put in some extra work to be able to fly, no sooner than 7th level. Presumably because that is when it would be balanced for you to fly, but even then, only at half speed. I don't imagine that adding another flying critter to the choices should alter the intent of the feat.
If you disagree with the feat's creators, feel free to houserule it at your leisure, but otherwise, I would stick with what they did, at least in the absence of a compelling mechanical reason to change it.
Hint: by "mechanical reason" I mean a reason based on game mechanics and balance, not so much on "Awww, man, it would be really cool!" - which, by the way, might be the most compelling reason of all, but is not always the best solution for a game (although sometimes it is).
Azothath wrote: This is one area of the game that needs some work, so right now it's mostly in the GM's area.
They could buy the mount straight out, with set HPs, and get to follow the encumbrance rules for flight rate. The mount has a set HP total and isn't gonna improve unless you come up with a price for improved mounts or mounts with more HD.
I think basically with the Monstrous Companion rules they were looking to scale the beast with level as the creature is a class function rather than a purchased mount (thus free with improving Hit Dice and abilities rather than set $GP purchase and set HPs). I would hope at some point the creature would follow the encumbrance rules for light/med/heavy loads and get its full movement rate at a light load while flying.
Mastery comes in at 7th level opening the flying mount ability at half. I'd place a second "mastery" with regular flight speed somewhere in the 12-14th level range.
You'll also have to scale the creature's advancement past the first "bump".
You might want to scan the Homebrew section of the boards and see if there's some advice there...
(adding)
like leadership and eidelons, extra critters under the PCs control can throw a mokeywrench in game balance, especially if they focus on adding power to the extra critter and that extra critter is free or unkillable. So it's an area where you should be conservative and careful as there are game balance issues.
The way we are planning on doing it relates to a story we are telling. We are each rotating making dungeons are after an expedition where, for the sake of a story, my current standard mount gets killed and can't be brought back. I'll be making an expedition after that but during the mourning period (Mount class feature) I find a Pegasus, Handle Animal, and it becomes my new mount.
We have a main GM (he introduced us to this game so he had the most experience and is technically our GM). He brought up the Monstrous Mount thing but I wasn't sure it related or if there was something official or at least some type of information somewhere on this.
I couldn't find anything in homebrew unfortunately.
As for balance, our game is weird.
DM_Blake wrote: What's the difference between a hippogriff and a pegasus? One has a beak and lion's claws, the other has a horsey face and forehooves. As for wings, pretty much the same.
Therefore, as for carrying a rider, pretty much the same.
OR, if you prefer game mechanics, the creators of that feat wanted you to put in some extra work to be able to fly, no sooner than 7th level. Presumably because that is when it would be balanced for you to fly, but even then, only at half speed. I don't imagine that adding another flying critter to the choices should alter the intent of the feat.
If you disagree with the feat's creators, feel free to houserule it at your leisure, but otherwise, I would stick with what they did, at least in the absence of a compelling mechanical reason to change it.
Hint: by "mechanical reason" I mean a reason based on game mechanics and balance, not so much on "Awww, man, it would be really cool!" - which, by the way, might be the most compelling reason of all, but is not always the best solution for a game (although sometimes it is).
Keep in mind, I only brought up Monstrous mount because it works something like how we are planning on working this. The difference is I'll be advancing a Pegasus from the bestiary (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/pegasus) like one would advance an animal companion, similar to the functionality Monstrous Mount but not in the same way.
When comparing the bestiary of a hippogriff (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/magical-beasts/hippogrif f) to the starting statistics of the Hippogriff mentioned on the Monstrous mount page, the one in the bestiary would be a level 2 animal companion based on it's hit dice (3) and it's natural armor bonus (+2 only). But it can't fly 100 ft until level 4.
So, I'm not sure if the comparison works well enough to say the Pegasus from the bestiary would work the same way.
An animal companion mount starts out weaker, but becomes stronger at higher levels. That's the price you and the mount pay.
Goth Guru wrote: An animal companion mount starts out weaker, but becomes stronger at higher levels. That's the price you and the mount pay.
I'm not sure how that relates to the question at hand. I'm wondering:
a) What the Pegasus' fly speed should by while I'm riding it (assuming light encumbrance so no penalties are taken from weight). Would it be 120ft (standard fly speed) or 60ft (half because I'm riding it)?
b) What, if any, are the relevant rules or past rulings that state this? The closest thing I could find which, as stated, our primary GM brought up was the Monstrous Mount feat page. But for the reason I stated above, I don't think it works by comparison of those listed on that page to their bestiary counterparts.
As I said, we already determined that it will be leveled pretty much like a normal animal companion so there isn't an issue there, it's just fly speed.
Well then, if it's "leveled pretty much like a normal animal companion" then give it half fly speed just like the other monstrous companion fly speeds. That would be the closest thing to "pretty much like a normal animal companion".
But you're pushing back pretty hard so I suspect you really want the 120'. Therefore, I suggest you do that. Fly 120' and have a great time.
DM_Blake wrote: Well then, if it's "leveled pretty much like a normal animal companion" then give it half fly speed just like the other monstrous companion fly speeds. That would be the closest thing to "pretty much like a normal animal companion".
But you're pushing back pretty hard so I suspect you really want the 120'. Therefore, I suggest you do that. Fly 120' and have a great time.
It's true that I'd like the 120ft fly speed, but the whole reason I'm asking is to see if there was anything relevant somewhere that could elaborate. If Monstrous Mount is the closest that one could get then so be it but given the discrepancies, I figured there was something better.
If there was something better than Monstrous Mount, nobody would use Monstrous Mount and there would be a slew of posts about how "X" has made Monstrous Mount obsolete and power creep is killing the game...(with more capitals and exclamation marks)
You have essentially 3 choices, all of which have been mentioned above.
1) stick to the monstrous mount guidelines.
2) buy a Pegasus, and use the regular fly rules but without the option to advance it.
3) house rule it.
DM_Blake wrote: What's the difference between a hippogriff and a pegasus? One has a beak and lion's claws, the other has a horsey face and forehooves. As for wings, pretty much the same.
The first thinks of the second as dinner.
Michael Grate wrote: Goth Guru wrote: An animal companion mount starts out weaker, but becomes stronger at higher levels. That's the price you and the mount pay.
I'm not sure how that relates to the question at hand. I'm wondering:
a) What the Pegasus' fly speed should by while I'm riding it (assuming light encumbrance so no penalties are taken from weight). Would it be 120ft (standard fly speed) or 60ft (half because I'm riding it)?
b) What, if any, are the relevant rules or past rulings that state this? The closest thing I could find which, as stated, our primary GM brought up was the Monstrous Mount feat page. But for the reason I stated above, I don't think it works by comparison of those listed on that page to their bestiary counterparts.
As I said, we already determined that it will be leveled pretty much like a normal animal companion so there isn't an issue there, it's just fly speed. The monstrous mount feat page describes if it is taken as a mount(as if a paladin's warhorse, Rangers animal companion, ect) Which starts out weak and gets better at higher levels. Pegasus in the Disney Hercules cartoon had that kind of bond with Herc.
If you just longterm charm or train the creature, It will always follow the bestiary stats. It will also avoid airborne combat. The magic bridle in the Greek Myths had that sort of effect.
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