Sound Striker Sneak Attack

[Redrazors]

I'm messing about with high skill arcane trickster builds to replace my particularly dumb barbarian in a party of particularly unskilled dumb melee types. Sound Striker Bard - Rogue Swindler - Arcane Trickster is looking particularly attractive, especially when combined with Greater Feint.

I know Weird Words is an ambiguously worded ability, but:

1) Can anyone confirm that sneak attacks do work with it, as each word is a ranged touch attack?

2) Enemies get a save for half from the 1D8+Cha Bonus. Would that save also half the sneak damage too? I noticed in the FAQ for Surprise Spells that the save for a spell like fireball also halves the sneak damage.

I know I'll have to clear it with my DM, I just want to know what the general consensus is, as that is what we generally go by anyway.

Thanks for any clarity on this.

[Ragoz]

Be sure to use the errata for this ability. It is very different from the printed text. Sneak attack indeed works but you will be hard-pressed to get much use out of it with the new Weird Words. Note that it takes one round of performance per word as well. A multiclassed bard will unlikely have enough rounds to use this ability often.

Quote:

FAQ wrote:

Bard: The sound striker’s weird words ability is confusing. Does it work more than once on the same target? And does it require 30 rolls to adjudicate?

Change the text of weird words to the following:

“At 6th level the bard can start a performance that is always a standard action to speak up to one word per 4 bard levels laden with sonic energy. Each word deals 4d6 points of sonic damage as a ranged touch attack with a range of 30 feet. The bard adds his charisma modifier on damage rolls with weird words. Multiple words that strike the same target stack into a single powerful attack, applying energy resistance and bonuses on damage rolls only once. The bard can target all words at the same or different targets, but he unleashes all words simultaneously. Each word costs 1 round of bardic performance.”

This change will be reflected in future errata.

[Zwordsman]

Redrazors wrote:

I know Weird Words is an ambiguously worded ability, but:

1) Can anyone confirm that sneak attacks do work with it, as each word is a ranged touch attack?

2) Enemies get a save for half from the 1D8+Cha Bonus. Would that save also half the sneak damage too? I noticed in the FAQ for Surprise Spells that the save for a spell like fireball also halves the sneak damage.

I know I'll have to clear it with my DM, I just want to know what the general consensus is, as that is what we generally go by anyway.

Thanks for any clarity on this.

Def use the new version. Its a lot easier and I think more usuable.. (previous one had a lot of dr and attack rolls)

1) If its within 30ft, you should be able to add sneak attack on it (typically any thing that requires an attack roll will gain sneak dice in the situation where you can gain sneak attack die)

2} Usually if it requires saves for half damage, it halves total damage; as sneak attack is typically the same damage type as the main type.
So yeah if it needed a save for half it'll half all of it. I.e. that fireball takes a save, so it'll half the total amount (roll fireball damage, roll sneak attakc (via lv10 AT) then cut that total in half)
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[Redrazors]

Thanks for the answers. Could you do me a favour and link to the errata page?

It is much better with this change, powerful as it seemed before, the idea of 10 attacks with saves and sneak dice did seem overly onerous.

[Archaeik]

Keep in mind that you exit stealth after your first attack even if the ability allows you to make multiple simultaneous attacks. (SA only once)

It's a bit unclear (to me) how it functions if you have an ability like Greater Invisibility whether it's intended to apply SA to all attacks, the way the FAQ's are written never seem to address this directly.

[Redrazors]

Archaeik wrote:

Keep in mind that you exit stealth after your first attack even if the ability allows you to make multiple simultaneous attacks. (SA only once)

It's a bit unclear (to me) how it functions if you have an ability like Greater Invisibility whether it's intended to apply SA to all attacks, the way the FAQ's are written never seem to address this directly.

I was planning to use Greater Feint, since general consensus on that seems to be that it does remove dex bonus for all and can be used at range as a move action.

The errata change completely nukes this build idea though, as I'd be better taking extra bard levels for extra Weird Words than trying to add sneak dice.

[James Risner]

Redrazors wrote:

1) Can anyone confirm that sneak attacks do work with it, as each word is a ranged touch attack?

2) Enemies get a save for half from the 1D8+Cha Bonus. Would that save also half the sneak damage too

Redrazors wrote:

3) idea of 10 attacks with saves and sneak dice did seem overly onerous.

1) Yes, so does it add Arcane Strike, Good Hope "weapon damage" and anything else that adds damage to weapon attacks not tied to specific weapons.

2) Yes save for half the total.

3) When I built an optimized Sound Striker for 2014 GenCon PVP I couldn't get good damage output using Sneak Attack. I couldn't get the average up. It is only 12th level and at 12th the best damage was 10 levels of Bard and 1 level of Alchemist. Averaged over 200 after the save and hit most targets on a 2.

Archaeik wrote:

4) Keep in mind that you exit stealth after your first attack even

Redrazors wrote:

5) I was planning to use Greater Feint

4) A major issue, yes. Only one Sneak Attack.

5) Also a major issue, there is passionate debate about whether or not Feint is only for Melee attacks. So you may not be able to get Sneak with SS's touch attacks. They ruled in 2013 it didn't work. Since then there has been many debates on here.

[James Risner]

They in #5 was the PVP GM's. Paizo has only ruled in the volley FAQ that any time a single action has multiple attacks you only get sneak once. Until Paizo rules on Greater Feint working on Ranged, you can only get one Sneak Attack on Sound Striker.