I generally rule that you become visible after the targeting roll. But you become audible as soon as you start.
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In ye olde days I might have said when you begin casting.
But with the updates to Stealth, and the fact that now Stealth and Invisibility are so closely related, I would say it should work like Stealth - your invisibility breaks after your first attack.
Based on this:
The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe.
So your spell is an "attack" for purposes of this spell. Stealth doesn't break until after you attack so I see no reason to treat Invisibility differently.
Why?
I assume it happens directly after the spell is cast.
In what scenario does it make a difference? The only one I can imagine is casting a spell while an enemy is next to you, which would normally provoke unless cast defensively, because he could potentially disrupt the casting of your spell if you are visible before the spell is cast.
Why?
I assume it happens directly after the spell is cast.
In what scenario does it make a difference? The only one I can imagine is casting a spell while an enemy is next to you, which would normally provoke unless cast defensively, because he could potentially disrupt the casting of your spell if you are visible before the spell is cast.
If you were a Rogue/Wizard and under the effects of Invisibility, would your Ray of Frost deal Sneak Attack damage? This would answer if you become visible before the attack roll or after.
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Why?
I assume it happens directly after the spell is cast.
In what scenario does it make a difference? The only one I can imagine is casting a spell while an enemy is next to you, which would normally provoke unless cast defensively, because he could potentially disrupt the casting of your spell if you are visible before the spell is cast.
It matters if I ready an action to attack someone that casts a spell. Say I know about one guy that's probably going to cast, but some other invisible guy casts a spell first that targets one of his enemies (so he becomes visible). Would my trigger go off on him?
To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice.
I'd say that somebody nearby would know a spell is being cast. A readied attack would have the same problems any attack on an invisible person would. Specifically, you need to roll well to pinpoint them. In this case, the starting DC to hear them is 0, so it's a DC 20 to pinpoint them. I usually say it's DC 10 to be able to get them in an area effect spell.
As for sneak attacks, if they can't see you it's hard to defend yourself. I'd give it to them even if they heard the casting.
I am not sure if you mean it this way or not, but IMHO, a trigger allows you to take a readied action, it doesn't force you to.
For instance, if the trigger was, "shoot the next thing that comes through the doorway" you wouldn't have to shoot your little sister when she comes walking through.
But, this being written text, you may not have meant it that way at all.
The readied action absolutely happens before the spell lands (assuming all triggers are met). That is the point of readying the action. It is also how to disrupt the spell. If the readied action were to happen after the spell lands, the readied action may not be viable since the target of the spell could be dead or incapacitated.
This is why it's always very important to be very careful with the wording of your readied actions, and trust that your GM won't metagame against you.
Komoda is correct about not being required to go through with the readied action though, if it turns out to be less useful than you originally imagined.
On the plus side for the invisible creature, it doesn't count as an attack if it doesn't target a foe or include a foe in the target area, so you can safely buff your allies and put up walls of stone and fire with impunity.
On the plus side for the invisible creature, it doesn't count as an attack if it doesn't target a foe or include a foe in the target area, so you can safely buff your allies and put up walls of stone and fire with impunity.
Careful with that wall of fire, it might include someone in the area when you cast it.
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A readied action doesn't allow you to automatically target an invisible caster. If the caster doesn't become visible until the spell is cast, then you can't disrupt it with a readied action unless you can detect an invisible person. The caster is simply not a valid target for your readied action.
Setting the condition don't target anyone and with weapon attacks and several spells you can attack an invisible opponent.
So you can set up a ready action "When someone cast a spell I will attack him.", hear/notice someone casting a spell (you can do that even if he is invisible), try to pinpoint his square for free (reacting to a stimulus) and attack that square if you succeed or a square of your choice if you fail.
Yes, all of that is possible, but it is by no means guaranteed. You might fail your perception roll to hear the spell cast, you might fail the perception roll to pinpoint the square, and then you might fail to hit even if you pinpoint the square.
However, I think some people were arguing the readied action would go off after the caster became visible but still allow you to disrupt the spell as per Byakkko:
Now, if the target were to ready an action "I shoot the spellcaster as soon as I can see him", an interesting question is whether they are able to shoot you before your attack spell lands.and Komoda:
The readied action absolutely happens before the spell lands (assuming all triggers are met). That is the point of readying the action. It is also how to disrupt the spell. If the readied action were to happen after the spell lands, the readied action may not be viable since the target of the spell could be dead or incapacitated.And if you look at the rules, they say:
You can ready an attack against a spellcaster with the trigger "if she starts casting a spell." If you damage the spellcaster, she may lose the spell she was trying to cast (as determined by her Spellcraft check result).So yeah, I agree with you, but that's not really the situation that I was responding to.
You can ready the action above. However, you do not see the caster until after the spell is cast. Thus you cannot disrupt the spell. However, the readied action resolves before the spell does.
Were the trigger "when an enemy casts a spell", then the readied action can disrupt the spell, but it must hit the invisible target, requiring selecting the correct square and passing the miss chance.
As a GM, I would likely allow the one readying the action the choice: miss chance and possible disrupt, or no miss chance and no disrupt.
/cevah