Greetings!
I am next up in my group to DM a campaign, and I have decided I wanted to do a somewhat enclosed urban setting on a floating landmass/city, so that is the base of my setting. I am making the city fairly massive in scope so that there is plenty of different areas to mess around in. I am also making magic very common in this game.
I have come across some questions that I'm sure my players will bust me on, so I am looking for better and/or more informed imaginations to help me define this concept better.
Some examples:
How does the city get it's water? Could it have rivers?
What would weather be like?
Could they grow crops on the landmass over the long term?
How could a large metropolis regulate flight, teleportation, and other non-standard travel methods on a city wide scale?
How would trade with other nations, ground based or floating, work?
In some cases I could pull out the arbitrary " its a magical world" card, but I would like to have well reasoned answers.
What do you all think?
How high up in the sky is the city? That would help determine some of these. Altitude sickness and frigid temperatures could prove to be an issue at higher elevations.
00argopile wrote: Greetings!
I am next up in my group to DM a campaign, and I have decided I wanted to do a somewhat enclosed urban setting on a floating landmass/city, so that is the base of my setting. I am making the city fairly massive in scope so that there is plenty of different areas to mess around in. I am also making magic very common in this game.
I have come across some questions that I'm sure my players will bust me on, so I am looking for better and/or more informed imaginations to help me define this concept better.
Some examples:
How does the city get it's water? Could it have rivers?
What would weather be like?
Could they grow crops on the landmass over the long term?
How could a large metropolis regulate flight, teleportation, and other non-standard travel methods on a city wide scale?
How would trade with other nations, ground based or floating, work?
In some cases I could pull out the arbitrary " its a magical world" card, but I would like to have well reasoned answers.
What do you all think?
How magical and/or technologically advanced are you wanting this place to be?
You could have rivers generated by magical items that repeatedly generate water as though from Create Water.
You could use such items to generate large amounts of power as well. Said power could be used to somehow keep the city/landmass afloat.
Blocking Teleportation could be done with objects that cast Dimensional Lock every X Days. Perhaps have said objects distributed in such a manner that there are a few places you can teleport too/from.
As for flight. . . Modify the idea for blocking teleportation such that you have pillars above, to the sides, and below the landmass. Inside the pillars at the end when be objects that maintain an Antimagic Field (probably a custom, level 9 version, with a much higher radius).
You could use those pillars to hold large propellers used to keep the place afloat I suppose. Power using water generated electricity.
Food is no issue either for the high magic/technologically advanced idea. If crops on the surface of the place aren't doable, grow them inside it using artificial sunlight and the like.
Control Weather could be used to make the weather behave.
Obviously, the cost of creating such a place would be massive. . . I'm still sniping it for my own eventually campaign however.
An island torn from the earth and propelled aloft by powerful magics eh?
Water flows from a gate to the elemental plane of water, contained within the mountain at the center perhaps?
Active volcano for flavor if desired.
Teleportation could be blocked to/from the island, or totally non-functional on the island itself.
Heck, just say it was created as a demiplane, that's how you explain ALL the strange mechanics.
You mentioned surface world though, so that implies people can fly to it/see it from the ground...
Mechanically, you would be hard pressed to make something like this. It falls into the realm of DM fiat.
Define the cities powers/abilities as you wish, and if the players ask how they can create one like it, just answer: Easy-become demigods, gather in a group and collaborate with the most powerful mages in the land for fifty years. Boom! Have your own floating island.
Decanters of endless Water combined = Start your own River
You could have airships that trade between the city and the surface world. Thus gaining food/wealth for the city. Interruption of said trade could be a good plot line for PCs to sink their teeth into.
Ooh, airships... (looking forward to FF VII remake)...
Maybe the city floats along a certain route that brings it past the same mountain range every year or so. While there they fill large reservoirs of water that they rely on the rest of the year. With back ups of "Decanters" in times of need. The city also trades with the races that live in/on/under the mountains. Thus the city can get new items. such as forged weapons etc.
The water could come from a portal/gate to the elemental plane of water. Thay could spawn man made rivers, tended by druids or nature clerics. You could even have a fish hatchery if the city is big enough. As for crops, proper farming plus druidic magic would solve most problems with that.
The city sits around a massive lake of fresh water. As water gets used, it cycles through the soil and back into the lake through aquaducts or other channels. The farmlands sit on the edges, ringed in by high fences. Flight is available to those who can pay. There is a landing pad for those with mounts that fly below the main city with a tunnel that leads to the top. The city does not just have to sit on top of the floating landmass, but also carved through it as space is at a premium. The weather would probably be cooler in general compared to surface temperatures depending on altitude, but if you have a way to move the city from location to location then you can always pick to be in warmer climates year-round. Altitude sickness could become an issue initially, but once the population becomes used to it it won't be much of a problem. Having access to demiplanes negates the necessity of trade with foreign nations and grants extra space as needed. As for teleportation and limiting it, you can set up teleportation exclusion zones using permanent magic items.
Consider Ulduvai from Crucible of Chaos. That floating city actually traveled from land city to land city to trade. They got their water from collecting rain and floating over rivers and lakes to collect reserves. The city was powered by air elementals and aeromancy. If your city could travel, that would likely explain many things.
Not just magic... weather magic! Its an island that flies, right? So maybe the same magic that that causes it to be airborne has some capabilities for controlling nearby weather.
FLIGHT
-The isand is from another plane of existince, or more than one. The materials simply do not follow the same rules of phystics the rest of the world does.
-A powerful spell picked up the mass of land and has kept it there ever since. No one knows who cast this spell, or how long ago it happened.
-A massive antifact of some kind is buried within the island that keeps it suspended in the air. Knowledge of it's location and access to it is guarded by the city, and even though some have learned a great deal about how to use it, no one knows all of it's secrets.
-The core of the island is a star that crashed on the planet long ago. Due to a gravitational anomaly, it hovers a reliable distance above the surface.
MOVEMENT? NO MOVEMENT?
-This island is immobile, but close enough to trade outes and various resources that this is not a problem.
-From time to time, teams of winged beasts are trained and/or hired to pull the island to a new locale.
-A fragment of the Elemental Plane of Air was harnessed durring the island's creation.
-A powerful spellcaster who dwells on the island has developed a high-level spell to move it as he or she wills it to.
-Wind turbines or massive sails are employed to propel the island.
-The buried artifact can be interacted with is many ways, though it is difficult and unreliable except for those who have used it for many years.
-The island moves about slowly with the wind, and the residents have little control over it.
WATER
-Clouds are drawn the land mass. It could be natural, the result of spells, the buried artifact, or a harness fragment of the Elemental Plane of Water. It could fill reservoirs, it could alot, or both.
-The island is anchored above a lake, and mechanical means are used to draw a water supply from it. An aquaduct distributes it.
-A team of spellcasters conjures water for the city's use. Versions of Create Water have been developed for every spell level for various uses. Some last longer than a day, some are specifally for bathing or decorative fountains, some are made to fall gently on the city's plant life.
SEWER
-The S just falls out from the bottom of thee island.
-A harnessed fragment of the Elemental Plane of Fire incinerates all undesirable materials.
Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
00argopile wrote:
How does the city get it's water? Could it have rivers?
What would weather be like?
Could they grow crops on the landmass over the long term?
How could a large metropolis regulate flight, teleportation, and other non-standard travel methods on a city wide scale?
How would trade with other nations, ground based or floating, work?
1) recycling/ large scale refrigerators to condense the water out of the air.
2) yes, if they used all space expertly there would be mainy farms on the top of buildings, or even the first few floors of buildings if a greenhouse.
3) probably could ban most of it and then rely on Permanent Gates(as the spell)
4) cannons and lots of parachutes, that or temporary gates.
Pick up a copy of Crucible of Chaos as it deals with discovering an ancient floating city.
If magic is common, water can come from Everflowing Springs.
Or simply fog off of clouds that it collides with. There is a lot of water in clouds. Like they are weighed in elephants. So simply having a basin for the water to collect in means running into clouds on a fairly frequent basis would replenish what is spent.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
That GM Guy! wrote: How high up in the sky is the city? That would help determine some of these. Altitude sickness and frigid temperatures could prove to be an issue at higher elevations. Special gaseous force dome... lets solids through but keeps air prssure up.... problem solved.
In Forgotten Realms we answered many such questions with the word... Mythal. Just come up with a new term for the same thing.
Earth Air Fire Water.
Chunks from each of the 4 core Elemental Planes combine together to make the city.
The Earth plane contributes the landmass itself - and minerals, metals, building stones, etc.
Elemental Fire powers the city and can also act as waste disposal as someone else said upthread.
Elemental Air contributes both the airy cushion the city floats on, as well as the weather-livability magic topside: breathable air (for higher altitudes), moderate temperatures, good climate for agriculture, etc.
Elemental Water provides the rivers and lakes and rain and drinking water, etc.
A bit torn from each plane, by long-ago mages.
Elemental factionalism could crop up, plus maybe many elementals from the 'home' planes HATE this city for its ancient planar thefts.
(A lot of this is basically what @Ciaran Barnes was saying...)
Or maybe the city is built around a flare-up of the Positive Energy Plane. What's coming through is raw (positive) power, which then is passed through 4 separate 'filters' or lenses- which renders the raw energy into each one of the 4 core Elements.
Am I totally thinking of this? http://www.amazon.com/Play-Doh-90020-Fun-Factory/dp/B004JMJKR4
Yes.
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As a result of the harnessed elements, there is periodically a mysterious death, such as someone spontaneously combusting, a massive gust of wind suddenly blowing someone off the edge of the island, a crevice briefly opens up and swallows someone before closing again, or water manifesting in inappropriate places, such as in someone's lungs.
Wow! I didn't anticipate such an exceptional turnout! Thank you my peoples.
There are quite a few good ideas to roll with, I am still digesting them.
Let me answer a few questions. The landmass is not exceptionally high, perhaps a half mile? It is rather large however, I'm intending a proper metropolis on it, population of a half million or so.
It is composed of 13 districts, each a city in its own right, each run by a governor that answers to a council of mages. Magic is VERY common in this world. Down to magical light switches that trigger orbs of light in each room and dials to trigger magical ambient heat or a cooling wind. Communication over distance is fairly common and simple. All magic, no tech. No guns.
It wouldn't need much area outside of the city as farms and livestock(?) could go in the subterranean sections.
I don't think it will have movement. Control weather type effects will be common which should prevent windstorms from sending it willy nilly.
The realm below is a magically ravaged area from some previous epic conflict. I will have several nations camped out below in hopes of finding a way to conquer the city and use it for whatever nefarious hijinks they have planned.
I really like the idea of a permanent portal to the elemental plane of water in the center of the landmass. I am going to use this.
The more I look at dimensional anchor area effects, the more I think this may be the way to go, which is a shame as I had enjoyed the idea of a guard force that could scry the city and pop in on trouble makers at will. But if I want to keep opposing armies/assassins out, I may have to shut it all off. Ah well.
I think I will simply have the city council prohibit all forms of flight, give the guard force boots of flight to enforce the prohibition, maybe instill a little bit of oppression.
For criminal offenses I am thinking of going with 3 tiers of punishment, fines -> mindwipe -> bound, gagged, and tossed off the edge. No prisons, space is precious after all.
Airships is a solid idea, and would add an interesting 3 dimensional element to the world. Undecided on this, but I am very tempted.
Stolen Chunks of Elemental realms might be the way to go as far as explaining how the city stays up. And I like the idea of pissed off elemental baddies f&$#ing with the city for revenge.
Thoughts?
Really, if you're using elemental planes, go full bore.
Each element has various utilitarian uses and a society that binds elementals to achieve technological-esqe effects is a staple in modern fantasy (See Eberron's House Canith).
If I recall, there was a floating city (or at least a very tall one), and flight magic was regulated (though tokens of featherfall were mass used as an accident protection).
perhaps look there for inspiration?
00argopile wrote: It wouldn't need much area outside of the city as farms and livestock(?) could go in the subterranean sections. You could also revert the concept by saying that since farmlands are vital, and landmass limited, the upper side of the floating island is reserved for crops and other agricultural avenues.
As such, rather than being built upward, the city is actually built downward, trough and under the land, with towers hanging below like stalactites, and giving its inhabitant a constant view (and reminder) of what they left and lost.
00argopile wrote: The more I look at dimensional anchor area effects, the more I think this may be the way to go, which is a shame as I had enjoyed the idea of a guard force that could scry the city and pop in on trouble makers at will. But if I want to keep opposing armies/assassins out, I may have to shut it all off. Ah well. If you want your guards to still be able to teleport whenever they want in the city (or in their assigned district), you could use the same trick than the Spellguard of Silverymoon (D&D 3.5 PrC). Each guard possess a Token. As long as he has the token in is possession, the guard can cast spells that are normally blocked by the city wards (in the case of the spellguard, it's summoning, fire and teleportation spells, but you could adapt it as you wish).
That way, your city guards have a big home advantage : They can pop in, possibly also use powerfull battle magic; and the criminals/invaders can't. That it unless someone manage to steal enough token to setup a small attack...
00argopile wrote: For criminal offenses I am thinking of going with 3 tiers of punishment, fines -> mindwipe -> bound, gagged, and tossed off the edge. No prisons, space is precious after all.... Could you define "mindwipe" ? If it is wiping the mind of the acts (and possibly reasoning), it wouldn't make them less susceptible of recidive. And if it's more of a personality wipe, that's pretty harsh. Harsh enough that I wouldn't be surprised that captured criminals would try to off themselves rather than be subjected to a mindwipe.
00argopile wrote: The realm below is a magically ravaged area from some previous epic conflict. I will have several nations camped out below in hopes of finding a way to conquer the city and use it for whatever nefarious hijinks they have planned. You should develop this further than "air people good, ground people bad". Yes, the peoples below should have agendas of various kinds, but the island should have interactions with the nations below. The relationship with each nations is different. Some change over time, some are outright bad. Some nations have something to offer the island, others don't. Regardless, the island has things that every nation wants.
An island with a massive city will have very limited sustainability, even with magic. Of course you could cover everything with magic, but a game whose problems are all solved with NPC magic doesn't sound very interesting. The farmers provide the freshest crops, but cannot feed the entire city. The city purchases crops from below and maintains graineries. The city craftspeople must pay high prices for materials obtained from the island, as the stone, metal, and wood is in very limited supply and it is neccessary for it to remain in place for the island to remain intact. An island with no outside interactions could grow culturally stagnant. The wealthy islanders bring in exotic things from far off lands, such as pets, fabrics, artwork, and literature.
You can introduce a politcal aspect to the game by introducing a handful of diplomats and merchants from the nations below and from other lands. None of them are to be completely trusted, but some have more transparent agendas (I'm here to make money) compared to others (I'm here to under peacable pretenses to infiltrate the government and allow my homeland to invade and take control).
Aralicia wrote: 00argopile wrote: It wouldn't need much area outside of the city as farms and livestock(?) could go in the subterranean sections. You could also revert the concept by saying that since farmlands are vital, and landmass limited, the upper side of the floating island is reserved for crops and other agricultural avenues.
As such, rather than being built upward, the city is actually built downward, trough and under the land, with towers hanging below like stalactites, and giving its inhabitant a constant view (and reminder) of what they left and lost.
00argopile wrote: The more I look at dimensional anchor area effects, the more I think this may be the way to go, which is a shame as I had enjoyed the idea of a guard force that could scry the city and pop in on trouble makers at will. But if I want to keep opposing armies/assassins out, I may have to shut it all off. Ah well. If you want your guards to still be able to teleport whenever they want in the city (or in their assigned district), you could use the same trick than the Spellguard of Silverymoon (D&D 3.5 PrC). Each guard possess a Token. As long as he has the token in is possession, the guard can cast spells that are normally blocked by the city wards (in the case of the spellguard, it's summoning, fire and teleportation spells, but you could adapt it as you wish).
That way, your city guards have a big home advantage : They can pop in, possibly also use powerfull battle magic; and the criminals/invaders can't. That it unless someone manage to steal enough token to setup a small attack...
00argopile wrote: For criminal offenses I am thinking of going with 3 tiers of punishment, fines -> mindwipe -> bound, gagged, and tossed off the edge. No prisons, space is precious after all.... Could you define "mindwipe" ? If it is wiping the mind of the acts (and possibly reasoning), it wouldn't make them less susceptible of recidive. And if it's more of a personality wipe, that's pretty harsh. Harsh enough that I wouldn't be... Starting at the top,
Yeah that was kinda what I was thinking. But I love the visual concept of towers reaching into the sky with no mountains in the backdrop, just endless sky. On the other hand I think I like the idea of towers that hang down "like stalactites". This has the added benefit of allowing more potential interaction with the lands below. Something to think about for sure.
The token concept is perfect. It lets me have the effects I wanted and allows for potential shenanigans and story hooks. Fricken brilliant. I'm using this.
The idea of mind-wipe comes from a series of books I recently read in which a city of mages would selectively wipe traits that they didn't like out of their populace. The worst punishment was to banish people into the wasteland surrounding the city, where death was considered certain. This was kind of what I was thinking, tho it would be mostly for flavor. Tho if my players are acting out...
And LOL at the...
Ciaran Barnes wrote: 00argopile wrote: The realm below is a magically ravaged area from some previous epic conflict. I will have several nations camped out below in hopes of finding a way to conquer the city and use it for whatever nefarious hijinks they have planned. You should develop this further than "air people good, ground people bad". Yes, the peoples below should have agendas of various kinds, but the island should have interactions with the nations below. The relationship with each nations is different. Some change over time, some are outright bad. Some nations have something to offer the island, others don't. Regardless, the island has things that every nation wants.
An island with a massive city will have very limited sustainability, even with magic. Of course you could cover everything with magic, but a game whose problems are all solved with NPC magic doesn't sound very interesting. The farmers provide the freshest crops, but cannot feed the entire city. The city purchases crops from below and maintains granaries. The city craftspeople must pay high prices for materials obtained from the island, as the stone, metal, and wood is in very limited supply and it is necessarily for it to remain in place for the island to remain intact. An island with no outside interactions could grow culturally stagnant. The wealthy islanders bring in exotic things from far off lands, such as pets, fabrics, artwork, and literature.
You can introduce a political aspect to the game by introducing a handful of diplomats and merchants from the nations below and from other lands. None of them are to be completely trusted, but some have more transparent agendas (I'm here to make money) compared to others (I'm here to under peaceable pretenses to infiltrate the government and allow my homeland to invade and take control).
You are 100% right. The temptation is high to just solve it all with magic, but it becomes a rather dull environment. I really like the diplomats idea, I will use that. It should really let me color the interactions between nations.
I'm slowly getting an idea of how to work out commerce and trade, and I'm pretty sure I am including Airships in this world. Thank you all for the suggestions and please keep them coming!
Maybe there could be tiny flying magical beasts that emit an antimagic fields to protect against teleporting, magical flight, summoning, etc. Baddies could still get in by killing or herding a bunch away from an area.
And there can be all sorts of flying transportation: flying mounts, airships, flying carpets, winged boots, flying chariots, pixie dust.
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