Some insightful observations and offerings have certainly been made about the challenge and the overall ‘random factor’ of the WotR introductory scenarios, sure. It would even appear that such has become a bit of a strain on some groups’ enjoyment of the game. However, to my experience, the design and balance thus far of WotR have brought out the best in our playgroup. For us, it has been a stellar experience, in fact; and I sure would like to share just a little of our appreciation with the resident Paizo peoples what dwell here—of both the player and dev variety. Thanks.
Ours is a group of five: the same five players who journeyed through RotRL and S&S. And, admittedly, following a quick preview of the orange and yellow base and character add-on cards to set the mood, we were afraid. Very afraid, really. The potential for some pretty terrible series of chance events to threaten our characters’ success, as well as their lives, began to half sink in early on. We built and then rebuilt our starting decks with very mixed feelings initially, true. But then, somewhere during this somber exercise, something delightful happened. So we rebuilt our decks again, but this time inspired. See, we found ourselves accidentally entertaining strategies that we had never considered before. In defense of our characters’ very souls we were reflexively reassessing the value of cards that we’d grown accustomed to outright dismissing in previous sets. And best of all, though I wish I could brag on what a clever lot we were being, we really weren’t. Rather, we were just being scared. And, to their credit, that was Mike, Vic, Tannis, and that whole bunch’s doing: forcing us to get far outside of the way we wanted to and expected to see things.
Adjust or die. Sounds awful. Is this even recreation? To us, it sure was. And we inadvertently realized that it came at just the right time, for I think that subconsciously our group was beginning to feel that we had extracted the gist of what PACG had to offer. Of course, I’ll also yield that at a different phase of our lives, it could be that we wouldn’t have appreciated paying money for that kind of pressure. I respect that sentiment. I do. But where we are now is here. So thanks, devs, for what you did with this set so far. I think that it’s just what we were after, maybe even without knowing it. So, too, will we be thrilled if Mummy’s Mask proves, as the beginning of WotR did, that it is folly ever to hope to master the PACG.
The party that we chose has been made up of Imrijka, Adowyn, Enora, Seoni and Seelah (a decision finalized more for a very silly reason than any tactical one). From there, though, we got serious. Unfortunately, having no experience with tiny teams and being that our approach relies on having a large number of players, I wouldn’t know what to offer a group of say, two, other than my sympathies. But for five, we’ve stumbled onto what feels to us are some effective and fun methods for coping with many of the typical problems that have been reported, such as avoiding/handling unfortunate concentrations of demonic hoards and arboreal blights, how to keep Enora alive, etc… And if it is true that so-called ‘randomness’ can be influenced as such, then it might not be so entirely random. This is just our experience, and if anyone is curious about any details, I’d certainly be too glad to share them as well. Much of our play involves playing very very dedicated roles, even if only certain characters tend to get all the battles and the glory. Maybe this simply wouldn’t be fun for some, but we tend to derive a lot of satisfaction taking co-op to a very extreme place. And WotR has been one of the only recent games that has allowed us to indulge in this little vice, really. I’d wager other customers must feel this way too.
Anyway, we like it.
Yup, Wrath is awesome and a must buy. Just spent 4 days and 13 sessions (26 hours) playing it, and it's so much fun.
You're right, you need to adapt. You need armor to protect large hand sizes. People who wouldn't even normally get armor (card feats), like Sorcerers, were getting armor.
My ranger Agna selected armor as his first card feat, something I thought I would never do.
Weapons. Characters who would normally not get weapons, like Zarlova or Sorcerers, were getting weapons either through a card feat or trading.
Yup, it was a weird week, but you gotta do what you gotta do.
All I can say to the people who are struggling with Carrion Golem or Arboreal Blight is that it get's easier as you add AD 1 and 2, since they become more rare. Nasty cards. As a matter of fact, barriers become so weak (the temptations), they becomes more like loot piñatas.
In summary, loving Wrath.
I agree with the original poster (OP) as well. Some facts / observations about WotR:
- I've only played PACG in large groups (>4).
- We spent hours selecting our party members, looking for ability synergies and assigning very specific roles like the OP mentions.
- You can't play WotR like the previous two sets. For both RotR and S&S, after about deck 4 there was never a feeling/threat of actual death. Sure there was damage the occasional loss of your hand but I never really worried about actually dying.
- We spend quite some time discussing the locations and formulating a strategy before we even start. Which location to close first, which to avoid, what characters synergize with certain location effects, etc...
- Stick to your strategy! (unless of course things have gone horribly wrong).
- Like others have mentioned, it gets better...hang in there! There will always be a small component of luck, we're playing a card game that's randomized with shuffling. However I don't feel WotR is any more or less dependent on luck than a previous set.
I guess a bonus to having such a high mortality rate is getting to play more characters :) Between the previous sets and class decks there are a ton of choices.
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You can't play WotR like the previous two sets. For both RotR and S&S, after about deck 4 there was never a feeling/threat of actual death. Sure there was damage the occasional loss of your hand but I never really worried about actually dying.
Amen to this. My gf and I are finishing S&S now, and I've had "Raise Dead" in Oloch's deck for two adventure decks now, and our party has never even been close to needing to use it.
I'm equal measures excited and terrified to jump into WotR.
My anecdotal evidence says this is way harder.
I have failed all the scenarios in the base set except the Traitor's Lodge, and I got by that one by the skin of my teeth
I just failed Vengeance at Sundered Crag for a third time and it came down to Balazar failing to roll 15 on Tancred using d10 + d6 + 3d4. So easily could have won.
I believe my problem is two-fold. A distinct lack of scouting, and a lack of fast exploring. I am using Alain, Seoni, Imrijka, Kyra , Balazar and Seelah. Alain and Seelah both often only get one explore for much of the scenario, and as has been noted, I am blundering into all the "got yas" and hemorrhaging cards way too often.
Still, I am having fun and enjoying the challenge.
You're right, Troymk1. It's way harder than the other APs.
But IMHO, I don't believe WotR lives up to the difficulty described on the forums. From the best I can tell, much of the perceived challenge stems from a determination to play Wrath in the same way groups played AP1 & 2. Were our group to stick with our RotRL approach, I doubt we ever could bet past scenario B2.
@ Jason S: Very cool. Armor, sure. So happy that it's so relevant. But also, like your group, many of the cards that we carry are meant for handing off to other characters ASAP. This can take a while...but it's been very effective.