I'm considering if I want to include metamagic in my eldritch scion build, and I've come up with two options if I do decide to do this, but I'm not sure which option I like better.
Basically, I can go the feat route or the arcana route.
For the feat route, the advantage is that one chosen spell is greatly augmented and versatile, but I lose versatility in all other spells. No spell combat makes metamagic a less attractive option for those other spells. In addition, it's very feat hungry. I need two feats just to be able to apply a single metamagic to a single spell in order to use it well.
For the arcana route, the advantage is a great amount of versatility not normally available to a spontaneous caster. Every metamagic arcana that I take, I can use it with any appropriate spell. This option frees up feat slots if I wish, or I could just take them with extra arcana, so there's a little versatility in my character build as well. The disadvantage is that I'm limited to once per day for each of these.
A side question, can I use multiple versions of metamagic arcana on a single spell?
To answer the side question: no.
The metamagic arcanas unilaterally suck, save for Quicken (seriously, Maximize is +25 damage per day in most cases. That's bad by any standard). If you're going metamagic, use feats. As an Eldritch Scion, though, you're frankly probably better off not using metamagic unless you're buckling down on augmenting a single spell and are okay with taking multiple feats exclusively for that spell.
The one thing that Eldritch Scion does wrong, above all else, is that it can't add metamagic to spells without making them full-round cast times. This means that, even assuming you are over level 8 and aren't hampered by the inability to use Spellstrike/Spell Combat without burning through your Eldritch Pool, you are strictly and hilariously inferior to a normal Magus. Not by a little, not by "oh, that's not such a big deal, I'll suck it up and deal with it," but by "why would anyone ever actually play this piece of awful, awful tripe?"
It's such a good concept and the ball was dropped so terribly.
*Shrug* So long as you're willing to go all-in on one spell, you can always take Spontaneous Metafocus.
Of course, "all in on one spell" is silly Because Caster, but you do have options to work with.
For a home game I would (and did!) just bribe the GM until he lets me gank Rapid Metamagic from 3.5.
Well not being able to use spellcombat is bad, but it is not that bad.
What does a Magus gain by Spellcombat? An additional, normal Melee attack.
So at lvl 8, with a +3, keen scimitar and STR 22 for example he can do
8d6+9 + 1d6+9 damage at -2 attack via spellcombat, or 8d6+9 without Spell combat.
Of course, without spellcombat he can wield his weapon with both hands to add 1.5 times his STR for 8d6+12 damage and instead of the -2 from spellcombat you could use Power Attack for -2:+6
The difference is:
8d6+9 + 1d6+9 = 49,5 or
8d6+18 = 43
difference is 6,5 damage or ~13% Spellcombat is better, sure. But it's not the end of the world to not have it available.
It would be super feat intensive and has limited uses per day, but if you variant multiclass or use eldritch heritage for the arcane bloodline you'll gain the ability to use metamagic without increasing your casting time a few times per day. You'll get a few other things out of it too.
MightyK wrote: difference is 6,5 damage or ~13% Spellcombat is better, sure. But it's not the end of the world to not have it available. You're noting the existence of a keen scimitar in your example but haven't included the possibility of a crit. Doubling the spell damage on a 15-20 (+confirm of course) is nice.
Also with two attacks if the first misses you'll still be holding the charge when you make the second. This increases the chance that you'll hit with your kill-o-zap spell in the round you cast it (& before the possibly lethal retaliation.)
An eldritch scion w/out standard action metamagic is quite noticeably weaker than a base magus. Not unplayable but not something to recommend when alternatives are available.
MightyK wrote: Well not being able to use spellcombat is bad, but it is not that bad.
What does a Magus gain by Spellcombat?
What does a Magus gain by Spell Combat? Pretty much his sole reason for existing over the Eldritch Knight.
Also, your numbers are... very wrong. A level 8 Magus who's only got +9 on his swing ignored the best damage option available to them. A level 8 Magus' Intensified Shocking Grasp does 8D6, meaning it Spellstrikes for 9D6+static damage mods. And of course... a level 8 Magus using Spell Combat has two more attacks than one that doesn't, because they have an iterative attack.
More realistically:
At lvl 8, with a +3, keen rapier and STR 22 hits for:
9d6+17 at -2, 1d6+17 damage at -2, and 1D6+17 at -7 via Spell Combat, or 9D6+17 without Spell Combat (seriously, why is he two handing instead of Precise Striking?).
Assuming base hit rate of 80%, that means we're talking 48.52 damage versus 70.3425 damage.
Which means that giving up Spell Combat means giving up 31% of your damage. That's a pretty meaningful tax that Scion just does not make up for.
Why not just wield the Staff of the Master? Free metamagic with no increased time! You lose that crit range, though, which kinda sucks.
Greg Everham wrote: Why not just wield the Staff of the Master? Free metamagic with no increased time! You lose that crit range, though, which kinda sucks. Wielded as a weapon a staff will generally take 2 hands - which loses you spell combat as well, and so you're back where you started. Also, arcane deed: precise strike if you have it, which most level 8 magi will.
Oh, yeah, you've got to be a Staff Magus or take the feat Quarterstaff Master.
And if you're going Staff Magus + Eldritch Scion, you can eventually solve the metamagic problem... but if you're a Staff Magus, you're not using Precise Strike, so you solved one damage-based problem and created a bigger one.
Not a good fix.
kestral287 wrote: [...] but if you're a Staff Magus, you're not using Precise Strike, so you solved one damage-based problem and created a bigger one. [...] Magi were doing lots of damage before the introduction of the precise strike arcane deed option.
They certainly were.
Of course, they were using 18-20/x2 weapons to do that. Staff Magus loses that too. That, in and of itself, is a large difference in damage output. If you add in the difference for losing Precise Strike-- because now that it's on the table, not accounting for it is folly-- then you've created an archetype that is highly ineffective at attacking.
The Staff Magus is a solid archetype, for what it is-- but it is not the solution to an offensive problem, because it has its own offensive problems. You want a support-oriented Magus? That's your archetype. But you're not solving any damage problem by using it.
Let me ask some questions. And answer them from my point of view.
Magus is damager, not god wizard, not buffer, maybe debuffer, but definitely damager.
1.) What are the most important spells for magus?
In my opinion:
level 1 - Shocking grasp, maybe Snowball
level 2 - Bladed dash, Mirror Image
level 3 - maybe Fireball
level 4 - Dimension Door
level 5 - Bladed Dash, Greater
2.)How many of these spells will profit from metamagic?
Shocking Grasp, Snowball and Fireball.
3.) Which is the one most usefull with Spellcombat/Spellstrike?
Shocking Grasp, without debate. Snowball and Fireball are ranged spells, not elegible for Spellstrike and not very usefull with Spellcombat.
So take the feat "Spontaneous Metafocus" for Shocking Grasp. The ability to use your primary damaging spell through all spell levels without need to memorize it is pure gold. No, not gold but diamond. Eat the longer cast times, when you need to cast other damaging spells.
Actually a made a build of halfling swashbuckler/eldritch scion/mutation warrior for homebrew campaign. Min-maxed for best dmg/high save rolls. Only PF stuff, with using rules from PF Unchained.
Level by level, from 1 to 17 I think. If you are intersted, ask me at Beyde1@seznam.cz
Which is a solution-- but it's a feat-tax that you have to take in the early levels, on a class whose early levels are already rough on feats.
If Spontaneous Metafocus was something you could put off until, oh, probably 9th without gimping the character? It would be fine. But nope, you pretty much need it at the same time you take Intensify Spell, which is probably 5th.
So in five levels, your bog-standard Magus with a twist of Scion needs:
-Dexterity to Damage (2 feats)
-Extra Arcana (1 feat; you can go without this but there are three really good Magus arcanas available before 9th and only two slots to put them in)
-Metamagic (2 feats)
That's five feats. Your standard Magus gets four by level 5. Human gets a fifth... but that's forcing you to take either Intensify Spell or Spontaneous Metafocus at first level, because nothing else lines up. Congratulations, you made your race choice for something that won't pay off until level 6. Or you made a sacrifice that a normal Magus didn't.
Which is the problem. It's not that it's an unsolvable issue. It's that the issue exists, and weakens the appeal of the Eldritch Scion when it's already such a horrendous archetype for other reasons (Int/Cha swap, spells known issue, resource guzzling on arcane pool points, oh and the feat issue too). You can solve it, but that means you're still weaker than a straight Magus, and he can Empower his Shocking Grasp and his Vampiric Touch.
wouldn't dipping 1 lvl in arcanist and getting metamixing solve this problem (for a limited casts/day at least) ?
you would start with like 3-4 arcane points, and using your arcanist slots be able to refill 2-3 of them, so a few casts/day you would actually have
this route you could potentially grab extra exploit and grab school understanding "admixture" so you can also swap 3+charisma times/day elemental damages for free, which is quite helpful for a magi.
am i wrong somewhere here?
You start with three points (Arcanist lacks the "round up" clause for levels), you could consume ~3 more, maybe four at the really high levels. Call it six points for the day, though no more than three per fight...
My Magi want to cast a lot more than three Grasps per fight/six per day if that's their focus.
Again-- it's a solution. It does work, more or less. And it's a solution with costs, in that it directly costs you +1 to hit, +1 to damage, either a trait or a caster level, delayed progression of class abilities (when the Scion already has playability issues before level 8)...
It's a solution with costs that ultimately just reinforces the Scion's inferiority.
3 grasps per fight is overkill.
usually, you need something like 1 dash at round 1, and then 1-2 more spells, one of which can be a shocking grasp. spells with multiple touches/cast (rime frostbite and etc) are also going to be much more effective for this kind of build.
so yeah, for a purely specced shocking grasp magi that needs to spam 3 shocking grasps/fight scion is bad. for a more general build, there are workarounds.
and it's not a bad idea either way to put a lvl of admixture wizard on a magi for the elementa swapping, which for an arcanist is only +1 feat.
Halfling (favored bonus 1/6 bonus Arcana)
Traits: Magical Knack, Irrepresible, if you are using Drawbacks from Quest and Campaigns, throw in Wayang Spellhunter and Mark of Slavery
1.level Swashbuckler - Weapon finesse, Weapon focus (rapier)
- Fencing Grace
2.level Magus - no Feat
3. level Magus - Risky Striker
4. level Magus - no Feat, Flamboyant Arcana
5. level Magus - Extra Arcana (Deed: Precise Strike)
6. level Mutation Warrior - bonus feat Combat Stamina
At this point you are selfbuffed somewhere at +16 to hit (5 BAB, +8 Dex with Mutagen, +1 size, +1 Weapon Focus, +1 enchanted weapon) (optional -2 for Spellstrike, +3 Shocking grasp) with dmg against Medium or larger somewhere at 1d4+13+4Precision +5d6 electricity. Crit Range 18-20/x2.
Shocking grasp used 4 or 5 times per day (with 1 Runestone of Power)
7. level Magus - Magus Bonus Feat(Intensify), Spontaneous Metafocus
8. level Magus - Arcane Acuracy, Lingering Pain Arcanas
And so on...
You don´t need Intensify (and Spontaneous Metafocus) at level 5, it is waste, and you may live without it through level 6, the damage lost is compensated with Precise strike.
The problem with putting off Intensify/Metafocus for the Scion is that you need both of them together.
Your build can do that, but only because it accepts delaying the Scion's progression by two levels, meaning that you're not getting a bonus feat until 7th. That's an advantage you get for the costs you eat (mostly endurance; you have full combat capability for... what, probably ~8 rounds per day?) Cool. Solid build.
Straight Scion? Well, you can take Intensify at 7th. Do you take Metafocus at 5th, where it's useless for two levels, or 9th, so Intensify is useless for two levels and the window has passed?
Or do you take Metafocus at 7th? Again, you can take Intensify at 5th (where it's wasted) or at 9th (where the window has passed).
Ultimately, it's a choice between burning a feat slot at 5th that won't be useful for two levels, or burning two feat slots at 5th that will be useful next level. But you have to take at least one of those two feats at fifth (probably Intensify; it at least has some use without Metafocus) or give up on Shocking Grasp.
Straight Magus can slot in Intensify at 7th if he likes, certainly. Scion? The feat slots don't line up.
Maybe the intensified shocking grasp is not the best fighting style for an eldritch scion?
A frostbite build for example could take rime spell at lvl 1 and metafocus at 3,or both at 5.
It's really not their best option, no.
"Stop pretending you're a normal Magus and can fight like one" is about their best option. Hence from the second post:
kestral287 wrote: As an Eldritch Scion, though, you're frankly probably better off not using metamagic But people would rather find workarounds to use the same playstyle than find a new playstyle, and it's important to recognize why we have the need for those workarounds, when and how they work, and what their shortcomings are.
It's really the same problem that crops up with high-level Magi; every now and again we get somebody asking "do Magi fall off at high levels" or commenting about how the Magus peaks around level 10. Is it true? Not really, no. Do you have to change your playstyle or go into some really heavy investment that probably still doesn't leave you as awesome as you once were? Yes. Does it mean the class is non-functional? Well... here the analogy fails, because the Scion kind of is non-functional, but it's not (solely) because of their lack of metamagic. Their big problem lies in Spell Combat falling apart; the Int/Cha and prepared/spontaneous switches are simply icing on the cake of terribleness.
In my presented build, you may safely take Mutation Warrior out. He is there only for boosting Dexterity/Nat. AC through Mutagen. You may delay progression only one level if you wish. Then bonus feat for Spontaneous Metafocus kicks in at level 6.
Your spell progression is hampered, true. But it is not terrible loss, for instance Kensai lose more spells. And dipping is norm.
In offensive potential, spontaneous magi has upper hand. In mid-high levels, with propper Metamagic feats, you probably never run of Shocking grasps, because virtually all of your spell slots may be Shocking grasps. Even your last 5-level slot may be used as Empowered, Intensified, Elemental Shocking Grasp. Potential to change spell level on the fly is golden.
I admit, that limits of Spell combat hurts. But with proper Bloodline, namely Arcane, when you must burn an Eldritch pool point, you get bonus - efect of Blur, later Blur/Haste. For one point, with swift action, you apply effects of TWO very good spells on you. And you still have room for casting Bladed Dash, hasted full attack and Spellstored Vampiric Touch/Intensified shocking Grasp.
Properly built Eldritch Scion is far from non-functional.
Kensai doesn't lose nearly as many spells as two levels of dipping, not where it matters. And, incidentally, you cannot take Spontaneous Metafocus with your bonus feat. If you drop Mutation Warrior, you're going to wind up taking Intensify Spell at 6 and Metafocus at 5 or 7. Realistically 7, so dropping the dip provides little to no gains where feat progression is concerned.
Straight Magus also never runs out of Shocking Grasps, thanks to Spell Recall-- consider how many points you're spending on bloodline activations, and that a straight Magus has those points free to pull back spells (or whatever else he likes really). That gives the straight Magus both greater flexibility, as he's getting his extra Grasp castings on top of his actual spell allotment where you're replacing the daily allotment with them, and greater endurance, as he really never runs out of Grasps; assuming the same number of points, he can recall an Intensified Grasp-- later an Intensified/Empowered Grasp-- every other round and not spend any more arcane pool points than you are. And honestly, if that's the one edge of the Scion... a straight Magus can steal it by dropping two feats for Preferred Spell. Costs one more feat than what the Scion needs for basic setup, but the straight Magus can take those two at his leisure.
And yes, you get two spells... for two rounds... at level 8. Ten in your build, nine if your build sacrifices Mutation Warrior. So at best we're talking 66% of the average character's career. If we accept that "dipping is the norm" then we shift that marker back to 75% or 83%. A straight Magus can pick up Hasted Assault, which is usable for the same action and will last ~two-three times as long, so realistically... you get free action Blur at the cost of raising your resource and action economy costs to keep both active. 20% miss chance is good. It's not good enough.
Couple that with the Scion's Spell Combat issues not being resolved until level 8 (which is what really renders them non-functional, and you've kind of just accepted and glossed over) and their feat issues not being resolved until ~level 7, and the point proves itself.
The best things you've argued for the Scion are available to the straight Magus with one more feat, but better, or aren't available until the mid-game, close to the end of most careers-- and are still pretty close to being available for the Magus.
How many times you may Spell Recall for instance Intensified Elemental Shocking Grasp? At level 9? When you may have Hasted Assault? It is 3 points Grasp, 1 point Hasted Assault for 4-5 rounds of combat. And two swift actions, so not possible in one rounnd. So realisticaly 2x times.
If you take Preffered Spell, you have the edge, but you are now 1 feat behind Eldritch Scion...
And Spell Combat issue before level 8. Why would be Eldritch Scion non-functional? If he runs out of Eldritch points (after 10+ rounds of combat), he still may use Spellstrike - cast Shocking Grasp, move if he needs and then deliver the touch spell through his rapier. Losing one attack per round before level 8? Sure. Painfull as hell? Sure. Rendered non-functional? No way.
Don´t get me wrong, I´m not trying to prove that Eldritch Scion is superior to Kensai or Straight Magus, I´m trying to prove that he isn´t so terrible if built properly. And opportunity for peoples who like the idea of spontaneous magus.
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First: if you need to use Spell Recall in the first round of actual combat, you deserve the beating that's coming. You should either be using that in the pre-buffing stage or late in the fight. First round means you got caught with your pants down, and given how carefully you have to pilot a Scion I would really not want to assume bad play.
Second: At level 9, I wouldn't be bothering to Empower Grasps; I don't have enough third-level slots to justify it. Maybe if I took Spellhunter and Lineage both, to bring the cost down to two points and give me a whole lot more slots. But, for a point of comparison:
1/2 level = 4 points. Starting Int 18 isn't hard to achieve (base Dex and Int of 16, +2 Tiefling or Elf, drop your Cha and maybe Str to get some decent Con and you're set for stats). At this level another +4 between gold and level-ups is well within reach, so 22 Int is reasonable; you could fall anywhere between 20 and 24. So we're looking at 10 points. Nine free, spending the tenth is an emergency use because it will disable Precise Strike. Scion will have the same number of resources.
Hasted Assault costs one point and will last us six rounds. Recalling a Grasp costs one point; if we're really going all-in on Grasp we're be Recalling Intensified/Empowered for two points. A straight Scion needs to spend one point every other round, so he has eighteen rounds of combat time at full functionality. We need to spend one point every six rounds, so three points over the course of the day. That leaves us six points, so we can Recall six Intensified Shocking Grasps or, in the all-in variation, three Empowered Intensified Grasps.
Of course, that's a very simplistic viewpoint. It's not taking into consideration the probability that either Hasted Assault or the bloodline activation will have wasted time on the clock. Let's adjust:
We'll assume four fights per day, half of which last three rounds and half of which last four rounds, considering only actual combat time (I.E., we're not including time spent on maneuvering before the fight and pre-buffing). This means that our straight Magus' costs rise to four points per day, while the Scion needs to spend eight. Thus the straight Magus has a 'mere' four points more than the Scion free. He's only almost doubled the base first-level spell slots of the Scion, rather than more than doubling it as the previous example.
Let's dial it in a bit more though, shall we? Magus accuracy sucks at the baseline, and they really want Keen. We're going to be augmenting our weapon too. Once per fight.
So the straight Magus needs four points for enhancing his weapon, four points for Hasted Assault, that leaves him a mere one free point. Kinda sucks. What about the Scion?
Well... two points per fight only left him with one point in the first place. He's used his last free point, his Precise Strike point, and still had to do without weapon enhancement on half his fights. Now we're talking losing two points off the to-hit and ~15% of your damage for half your fights. Suddenly, this is a much bigger deal than some spell slots.
And recall-- 9th is the second level where the Scion can actually be considered functional. Let's try this again at level 4, shall we?
4 levels = 2 points, 18 Int/Cha = 4, we have a total of 6.
Number and duration of fights is relatively static. Scion is still spending two per fight, meaning he runs dry after fight #3. Straight can enhance his weapon on all four fights and still Recall two Grasps. Of course, the Scion has Blur for three of those fights, so he's harder to kill for the fights he can fully participate in, in exchange for straight Magus' longer combat endurance and higher to-hit and damage (or doubled crit rate, more likely) on all fights.
Now, if we really want to get detailed, the Scion will simply let his party mates finish the job of those shorter fights. This rests on the assumption that he can consistently and accurately predict the duration and difficulty of each fight, but let's assume both Magi are piloted by experts here.
That gives the Scion another two points per day at all levels. He can actually fight in every encounter at level 4, making this a question of offense (two more first-level spells, either boosted hit/damage or higher crit rate) vs. defense (20% miss chance) with a side twist of anything going wrong being dramatically worse for the Scion than the Magus.
At level 9, those extra two points mean that the straight Magus is down to 'only' two more Shocking Grasps per day with the second set of assumptions, and with the third...
Well, with the third the Scion still runs dry, but at least now he doesn't do it until the end of the day and only has to forgo Precise Strike, so he's 'only' down +9 damage (you can make a case for either ditching the enhancement's +3 to hit/damage but those are roughly equivalent in results, or for ditching your Haste/Blur setup but that's probably a larger loss).
And really, let's take stock of something here.
This was a long set of examples and comparisons that consist of a prepared caster stealing a spontaneous caster's key advantage in casting spontaneously. He's still a prepared caster. And as much as I, personally, don't like prepared casters, they certainly have some significant advantages over spontaneous casters. What does the Scion get to compensate for the straight Magus' larger list of spells known (assuming the straight Magus never manages to get any spells outside level-ups and level 9, he has 20% more first-level spells and 50% more second- and third- level spells known. We won't bother with cantrips, because seriously, even the Scion has six and beyond that who cares).
What does the Scion get to compensate for the straight Magus having twice as many Pearls as he has Runestones? You actually noted that in your build that you'd have one Runestone at level six. That's at least one more spell per day, probably a Grasp, in favor of the straight Magus.
How can the Scion reverse this? Okay, let's figure he has one feat open because the straight Magus did take Preferred Spell. How does he leverage that feat to negate one of the straight Magus' advantages here, as the straight Magus was able to negate his only advantages in casting? Heck, two feats. The Magus had to burn an Arcana slot on Hasted Assault, so that's reasonable.
That's your problem. Even at the levels where the Scion is capable, he's gimped. And at the levels that are the worst for Magi-- the first three-- he's screwed. Five pool points to last through four fights per day? No accuracy booster rendering you literally less accurate than the Rogue? Good luck.
But!
What if we just... stop and think?
What if we stop pretending that the Scion is a straight Magus who's somehow better--or even equivalent--at spamming metamagic-boosted Grasps?
What if we accept that, like the Staff Magus, it's an archetype with some solid advantages for us to leverage in exchange for not being able to smack the target for hilarious damage every round? What if we start playing like a caster?
Well then. We'll ditch Shocking Grasp, won't we? I mean, it's usable at the low levels, we'll certainly learn it and keep it around, maybe retrain out of it at 8th when we get that free swap.
Now we have two feats and a trait free over the Magus. Three, if he wants Hasted Assault down the line.
Now we start using spells like True Strike and Grease in our first-level slots.
Now we're eager to disrupt enemies with Frigid Touch, Darkness, and Web, instead of being eager to rush in with Bladed Dash and Shocking Grasp
Now we're conserving pool points and surviving those critical early levels, because in the early levels we're not far off in our spells from the full casters, so we don't need those points every fight. But when the fight comes to us, we're ready for it, picking up that swift action Blur and going in sword-first.
Now when the straight Magus is a bit higher leveled, and he's trying to juggle the need to support his party with the desire to electrocute faces, we're running support, taking the burden of casting necessities like Haste off the full casters-- and we're doing it from the front lines.
Now we're everything classes like the Fighter and Swashbuckler wish they could be-- martial characters who can control and influence the battlefield, without ever taking our hands from our swords.
The Magus spell list is not large, but it's large enough. It has the pieces of the puzzle.
Can a straight Magus still match what you do? Well... sort of. The thing is, when running control and support as a Magus, prepared casting does lose its big advantage. There just aren't that many fantastic spells of that nature on the Magus list. They're there-- in batches of, oh, about six per level. Enough that you can learn all of the key spells on your list as a spontaneous caster-- and now your benefit really does shine, as the straight Magus has to divvy up his spells, really no more spells than what you know, into slots while you can change course on the fly. And when he struggles, at the mid-game, to find a way to adapt to the game's shift and winds up throwing Empowered on all his spells, maybe learning Monstrous Physique, and just going at it, you already have the solution well in hand.
You won't win the Shocking Grasp game. You can't compete with straight Magus' Spell Recall or Kensai's plethora of abilities. Their resource edge matters, in a straight fight. And trying to win? Trying to compete?
Well. I misspoke earlier in this post. That, more than anything else, is the Scion's problem. Don't compete-- change the game to your strengths.
The very notion of the Eldritch Scion trying to invest four feats into Empowered Elemental Intensified Shocking Grasp and touting his ability to cast that as something of an advantage staggers me. It's a huge level of investment, and no matter how you try to prop it up, it's more investment than what a straight Magus spends on the exact same thing. But for that same spell slot and zero feats, you can Dimension Door to the enemy caster eight hundred feat away and stab him in the back.
That's quite a wonderful analysis, and I'm glad I read through all of it, Kestral.
You've actually hit the nail on the head for what I'm doing. I'm currently level 5, and I've been spending all my arcane points on simple survivability. Sometimes I'll plant myself in a doorway and cast true strike, daring someone to come and let me parry with my flamboyant arcana. Other times I would invest my points into allowing me to spell combat different control spells. Of course I still have shocking grasp, because it'd be a waste not to take advantage of the keen weapon, but I haven't been feeling like a classic magus at all.
One thing that I'm ending up with a little bit of a difference, though, is that for various flavor and personal preference reasons, I had planned on getting an improved familiar. I considered simply taking the magus arcana, but then I realized that if I do go for eldritch heritage (arcane), It'd be a single feat tax in order to later open up access to the metamagic ability. At level 11 I can grab improved eldritch heritage and any metamagic I qualify for and be able to use that metamagic freely twice per day, three times at level 13 and four at level 17. This would mean that during the more difficult fights, I can switch my focus to a classic magus.
Nice writeup!
I like the idea of an elf/half elf Moonlight stalker Arcane Scion because he can activate +2/+2 with blur "at will".
But its 3 feats...
Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
MightyK wrote: Nice writeup!
I like the idea of an elf/half elf Moonlight stalker Arcane Scion because he can activate +2/+2 with blur "at will".
But its 3 feats...
This is my plan for my society magus (with a dip of swashbuckler). Should be interesting as it plays out, and especially when everything comes together at level 5.
kestral287 wrote: ... I give up. Our point of view is clearly incompatible. You are trying to put shoes of "GOD wizard" on foots of 3/4 spontaneous caster. It amazes me.
Answer me one last question please. Sorry, two. Why do you think that Spell Combat is so crucial at levels 1-7, that it must be online ALL rounds of combat per day? Why Spellstrike is not enough?
And second. If my build has hit +8 at level 1 (against average monster AC 14),at level 5 +13 (against average monster AC 18), +18 at level 9 (against average monster AC 23) - that numbers without bonus +3 from Shocking Grasp (too situational) - why do you think that I need to spend Eldritch points and Arcana on Arcane Accuracy?
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