I was wondering if any one else would like to see a PF supplement dedicated to streamlining play to be faster and more narrative?
The reason I would like to see this is because my normal weekly game sessions usually last around 3 hours. Once we start getting into mid levels, our games get bogged down by the number of dice rolls, looking up rules, and tactical positioning. This usually means that we get into about one mid sized or larger encounter per session between RP and have had to end mind encounter several times because it took too long.
I realize this will get a lot of "play 5e", "it's just math", and get mini's and a tac map". I'm also not asking for a new edition either, just a supplement.
If you are interested in this, what would you try to pair down to make PF mechanics faster?
This might already exist. The Beginner Box pares down combat and monster stat blocks significantly. It should make for a quicker running game. That being said, although I own the BB I haven't played it yet for any group so I'm not sure how much it will speed up the game.
This might already exist. The Beginner Box pares down combat and monster stat blocks significantly. It should make for a quicker running game. That being said, although I own the BB I haven't played it yet for any group so I'm not sure how much it will speed up the game.
It might be a good place to start looking but I'm assuming it's design for early level, intro gameplay and not speed or to work with various other existing PF supplements. I'm also guessing it's setup for maps and miniatures. If you don't want to use those then certain things, Combat Reflexes springs to mind, that would still stick out.
Yes, it is more of an intro. However, I imagine a combination of a stripped down rule set from the BB and some of the Unchained options might give you a start. I would be interested in seeing a supplement for faster game play. I was looking at Numenera as a more cinematic option for role playing, but have too much invested in Pathfinder / 3.5 to make the plunge. Perhaps if I found the right gaming group.
I kind of feel the same way about 5E. I can play it, it's good for the time frame we usually work with, and there are some things I like but it also seems too light and narrow with character options. Also certain things seem tacked on or after thoughts.
I talked to the group I DM and we all agreed to never go past 8th level. So we play E8/P8, and occasionally throw in Mythic (maybe a tier or two, if we're really feeling it).
You could change how buffs work; there are a lot of modifier types, and if you simplify them into Enhancement (Magic buffs), Morale (Leadership-type buffs), Luck (Y'know. Luck), and Inherent (Like Rage) then you might not have as many things stacking up. But that'd require a lot of work on the front end, and that doesn't really solve many of the problems.
Honestly, you can still have fun and badass adventures at lower levels, you just have to scale things differently. The biggest problem I see with higher level play getting bogged down is that the number of options a character has on a given level are immense, and each of those options gradually start to take up more and more time. The game snowballs and gets even more legalistic.
I, like you, only get about 4 hours with each of my groups, so once things start taking a long time we start having less fun. Or a different kind of fun. I guess if you started at noon and went til 2 in the morning it might be different. If there were any kind of supplement like this, especially for levels beyond 10 or so, I'd love to get ahold of it.
If you(players and GM's) have multiple attacks then roll several attack rolls at once. Just be clear about which dice is for which attack. It also helps if you have players who are not struggling to decide what they will do. How well everyone knows the rules is also a factor, and unless the rule is going to result in character death sometimes you can wing, and someone can look up it later so you know what it is the next time around.
If someone is slow because of all the +1's from buffs then bring a calculator.
However it is also a fact that battles at that level take up a lot of time so you might want to stretch the time out a little farther, if possible.
D20Pfsrd.com has a fast play rules format for skills.
@ Puna'chong: Streamlining things so that you can play higher level campaigns in a limited time free is one of my desires, at least, for wanting such a supplement.
Restricting the number of potential modifier types is on option that might help a bit.
@ Wraithstrike: You could do all the things you suggest, ride herd and make sure that the only talk is in game, and roll all your attacks at once. Questions will still pop up like "can an exhausted Kraken still use its Jet ability to flee?" which need to be looked up. You can still roll out all your dice and still have to call out your damage individually because of DR. You can have several other issues pop up on the players side even though you're trying keep things from getting bogged down.
I know my group does things to try not to get bogged down. For instance if you forget a bonus then you better remember it next round because we're not going back. It's not that the people I play with are unintelligent and don't understand the system. It's that the system is too clunky to fit well into a short game session. We've done what we can to keep our sessions moving quickly without killing the fun, so is it so wrong to want to see a version of the system trimmed down to fit?
I wasn't attacking you. I was just giving advice.
I also was not aware you were asking for slimmer version because that basically would involved rules changes, and the little rules such as the jet rule you mentioned are scattered throughout the game. It will take a lot of documentation if you are going after those. I thought you were asking for advice. I am sure more of them will be created as the game goes on.
Maybe part of it also is the group asking questions that do not need to be asked. <---What I mean by "not needed" is to say that unless the rules strictly say you can not do it, then the extrapolation is not required at times.
Example: If the Jet ability does not say it can't be used while exhausted then it can be used. The exhausted condition does not call out the jet ability. I understand that there might be some similarity to the run action which exhausted does not allow, but the jet ability does not say "as if the creature was running", or anything like that.
This is also another example of, if it won't kill a character it might be something you can overlook until after the game.
What you might need in case my guess is wrong is to use more examples of exactly what type of issues are slowing you down if you want the community to help. If might even be a good idea if you want some 3pp to come up with something.
If you are asking us as whole to back you on getting Paizo to come up with an idea then you will still need to list specific problems.
Wraithstrike- sorry if my post came across as hostile, it was not meant that way. I didn't take your comment as an attack, I just wanted to establish that my group has looked at what we can do to cut down on down time.
Understood. I just want you to be aware that this topic has come up before and different people want different things when they ask for streamlining so being specific or giving example of common issue is probably the best way to go.