Critical hit negation / immunity and "benefits" to being critically hit

[Ultrann]

Certain creatures are immune to criticals (e.g., elementals), certain class features grant immunity to criticals (e.g., 20th level dwarven stonelord) and certain class features or magic items grant the ability to negate a critical hit (e.g., fortification armor).

At the same time, there are certain class abilities and mythic abilities that grant advantages to the "critted" character or creature. For example, in the Mythic Guardian tier, the True Defender at 10th mythic tier regains a use of mythic power if they are critted in a round. Another example is that the Avenging Maneuver (Guardian path) path ability allows you to make an AoO if you are critted.

So, my question is this: can a creature who is immune to criticals, or who negates a critical through an ability or magic item, still gain the "benefits" of being critted, such as the examples above?

Scenario #1: A Guardian mythic Fighter wearing heavy fortification plate mail and who has the Avenging Maneuver path ability. He is hit by a creature that has a critical threat and confirms the critical. However, the fighter rolls and negates the critical via the magic armor. Does the fighter then get an AoO via Avenging Maneuver? Or he doesn't, because he really wasn't critically hit?

Does it matter if you have immunity versus the ability to negate?

Scenario #2: A Guardian mythic Magus (10th tier; True Defender) is under the effects of Elemental Body III spell, making him to criticals. He is hit with a critical threat, which is confirmed. However, he is immune. Can he use his True Defender ability to regain a use of his mythic power? Or does his immunity also negate the ability to get that benefit from being critically hit?

If anyone can refer to (i.e., hyperlink) any Paizo official explanations to this in their reply, that would be great. Many thanks for your help!

[Zhayne]

It depends on whether or not the specific ability uses optional language, like 'you may' or 'you can'. Otherwise, the ability is always in effect.

[Elbedor]

If a target is crit immune, it would seem that an attacker can't score a Threat, so rolling within the range means nothing. No confirmation roll will happen. So any ability based on the attacker making a successful crit confirmation roll wouldn't trigger.

If a target isn't immune, but has some feature that provides a chance to negate a confirmed crit, then any ability that triggers on the attacker making a successful crit confirmation should fire before it is determined whether that crit is negated or not. But if the ability was such that the crit must be suffered first (not just confirmed), then it wouldn't trigger if a crit is negated.

But I'm just going off of the text I see. Maybe someone has a better answer than this as I'm not very familiar with these.

[Kazaan]

If you have a weapon with, say, Flaming Burst, it triggers a larger blast of fire damage on a Critical hit, even if the target is immune to crits. If the target is immune to critical hits, they are only immune to the extra weapon damage inflicted by a critical; not additional effects that are contingent on scoring a critical hit. In other words, you still score a critical threat and can confirm the critical hit, but crit-immune targets are immune to the bonus damage the crit gives so you usually don't bother unless you have some other effect that also relies on confirming your crit.

[seebs]

It seems to me that things like Flaming Burst ought to work based on whether you confirm a critical, not whether the creature is then negating the extra damage to it.

It's fuzzier with things like "get an extra use of mythic power when you are critically hit", because you arguably weren't.

But I don't see any way that being immune to criticals negates critical threat, which is a weapon/attack property.

[Kazaan]

It depends on how the benefit is worded. If it specifies "confirmed critical" or some variant thereof, it works even if the target is immune to crits because you can still confirm your critical threat; the target won't suffer the extra critical damage. But if it specifies "when you take critical damage" or some variant thereof, it wouldn't work on a crit-immune target because they are immune to the damage.

[Elbedor]

That certainly sounds reasonable.