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So, I recently became inspired to build a pseudo-African Savannah Tribal Archer PC. I was so inspired, I immediately spent the 5 hours(with snack break) illustrating the PC. Then, I immediately put together a build, to meet my concept.
Now, I am pretty happy with the current build, but I would like to have some opinions on it, and some suggestions on where to go in the future, with this build.
Here it is:
Female elf barbarian (invulnerable rager, primal hunter) 1
N Medium humanoid (elf)
Init +7; Senses low-light vision; Perception +5
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Defense
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AC 14, touch 13, flat-footed 11 (+3 Dex, +1 shield)
hp 15 (1d12+3)
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +1; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee spiked gauntlet +3 (1d4+2)
Ranged composite shortbow +5 (1d6+3/×3)
Special Attacks rage (6 rounds/day)
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 10
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 16
Feats Exceptional Pull, Point-blank Shot, Run
Traits highlander (hills or mountains), warrior of old
Skills Acrobatics +6 (+10 to jump with a running start), Perception +5, Stealth +9 (+11 in hilly or rocky areas); Racial Modifiers highlander (hills or mountains), silent hunter
Languages Common, Elven
SQ focused rage
Combat Gear candlerod (2); Other Gear buckler, arrows (20), blunt arrows (20), composite shortbow, spiked gauntlet, straight razor, masterwork tool, mirror, quiver (2 lb), silk rope (50 ft.), straight razor (0.2 lb), whetstone
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Special Abilities
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Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Focused Rage (Ex) You can use Stealth while raging, but lose bonus to Will saves.
Highlander (hills or mountains) +1 to Stealth checks, Stealth is always a class skill for you. Double this in hilly or rocky areas.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Point-Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Rage (6 rounds/day) (Ex) +4 Str, +4 Con, +0 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Run Run 5x your speed in light/medium armor or 4x speed in heavy armor and keep Dex when running.
Silent Hunter Reduce Stealth penalty for moving by -5, can make Stealth checks while running (at -20 - includes reduced penalty).
With reckless abandon you will have exelent arcuracy and and the str boost from rage is gonna boost damage.
Get the archer feats and you will stay on top of the game.
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I would be inclined to progress as a ranger, slayer or dip a couple levels of fighter to pick up all of the necessary archery feats as soon as possible.
If being able to survive in harsh temperatures is a requirement, a ranger can cast endure elements from 4th level onwards.
If you can find room for the feats, consider using a 2-handed weapon and taking power attack & quick draw. Your high strength while raging could make your character a decent switch hitter.
If the plan is to round out your ability scores at 4th & 8th level, I would consider dropping the Int to 8 and increasing Wis to 13, increasing it to a 14 when you hit 8th (assuming the 4th level bonus is going to Dex). The +1 to Will saves may be more valuable than the extra skill ranks.
Yeah, Reckless Abandon should be your first rage power for sure.
Honestly, I wouldn't try to get more than 12 Con on an elf, even as a barbarian. You're not trying to be in melee, and one round of rage isn't that much of a difference. The points would be better spent to bring your Dex and Int up, IMO.
Well, obviously, I will be grabbing a Adaptive Longbow, as soon as possible.
I like the mobility, and ability to have Stealth be an option.
I figure Precise Shot will be my 3rd level feat.
Precise shot, rapid shot, deadly aim or multi shot and cluster shot must be the feats you aim for.
I would be inclined to progress as a ranger, slayer or dip a couple levels of fighter to pick up all of the necessary archery feats as soon as possible.
If being able to survive in harsh temperatures is a requirement, a ranger can cast endure elements from 4th level onwards.
If you can find room for the feats, consider using a 2-handed weapon and taking power attack & quick draw. Your high strength while raging could make your character a decent switch hitter.
If the plan is to round out your ability scores at 4th & 8th level, I would consider dropping the Int to 8 and increasing Wis to 13, increasing it to a 14 when you hit 8th (assuming the 4th level bonus is going to Dex). The +1 to Will saves may be more valuable than the extra skill ranks.
he is a elf 9 in int is as low as they go.
Yeah, Reckless Abandon should be your first rage power for sure.
Honestly, I wouldn't try to get more than 12 Con on an elf, even as a barbarian. You're not trying to be in melee, and one round of rage isn't that much of a difference. The points would be better spent to bring your Dex and Int up, IMO.
you do spend 5 points to get con from 12 to 14 it May be better used on boosting dex to 18 and int to 10 or boosting str to 16. You wont get feats for stuff like raging vitality any way so no need to aim for con 15+ IMOP.
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he is a elf 9 in int is as low as they go.
Good point, I missed that when looking at the array as an afterthought.
you do spend 5 points to get con from 12 to 14 it May be better used on boosting dex to 18 and int to 10 or boosting str to 16. You wont get feats for stuff like raging vitality any way so no need to aim for con 15+ IMOP.
I agree with revising your abilities slightly. I would be tempted to dump charisma and push the dex up, keeping a couple of odd numbers around to round out at 4th & 8th.
Str 14, Dex 19 (20 at 4th), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 13 (14 at 8th), Cha 7
Well, obviously, I will be grabbing a Adaptive Longbow, as soon as possible.
Do you need an adaptive bow if you have the Exceptional Pull feat?
I don't know if dipping is worth it.
For a dedicated archer, it is possible that the value of archery feats is higher than a lot of the barbarian class features, as well as opening up a trait with stealth as a class skill. However, the loss of hp, favoured class bonus and will saves could hurt.
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That's not what Bucklers say:
Buckler
Statistics
Cost 5 gp Weight 5 lbs.
Armor Bonus +1; Max Dex Bonus —; Armor Check Penalty -1
Arcane Spell Failure Chance 5%; Speed —/—
Description
This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm. You can use a bow or crossbow without penalty while carrying it. You can also use your shield arm to wield a weapon (whether you are using an off-hand weapon or using your off hand to help wield a two-handed weapon), but you take a –1 penalty on attack rolls while doing so. This penalty stacks with those that may apply for fighting with your off hand and for fighting with two weapons. In any case, if you use a weapon in your off hand, you lose the buckler’s AC bonus until your next turn. You can cast a spell with somatic components using your shield arm, but you lose the buckler’s AC bonus until your next turn. You can’t make a shield bash with a buckler.
Well, obviously, I will be grabbing a Adaptive Longbow, as soon as possible.
You don't need to get an adaptive bow. With the free exceptional pull feat and the scaling of that feat you get you can buy a str +10 longbow that will be 12+ while raging. And since you're probably not going to get that high of str, getting a +8 or a +6 longbow will do everything you need.
I really like your build concept, and I see why you don't want to multiclass out of it. The problem is that you're incredibly feat starved. After your level 1 choices, you need precise shot, rapid shot, manyshot, and deadly aim to get the build up to full power. (Eventually you'll want cluster shot of course, but it'll have to wait.) If you waited to take those using your normal odd-level feat slots, then you'd be level 9 before your build fully kicked in.
If you keep it to a minimum of 2 fighter levels...
1B- Exceptional Pull, PBS, Run
2B- Reckless Abandon
3F- Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
4B-
5B- Deadly Aim, rage power
6F- Manyshot
7B- Clustered Shot
EDIT: Modified build because you can't take manyshot at level 5
Invulnerable Rager and Urban Barb can go together. With that, you can slide Str and Dex depending on opponents you're facing. If they're easy to hit, throttle down on the Dex and pump damage. If they're hard to hit, go the other way.
But primal hunter and urban barb both modify Rage. And primal hunter is one of the central themes of the build.
Honestly I have a similar build I'm using, but you need more Strength in my opinion. I did 16 str and dex and went human. That allowed me to get a +4 str. With your first chronicle sheet you can use prestige to get a +4 str composite shortbow (full use with exceptional pull).
That +4/+6 strength will help your damage output quite a bit. I prefer human to elf so I can get strength up higher. With +3 dex you're going to hit just fine. (+3 dex +1 BAB +2 Primal Hunter rage). Take Reckless Abandon as your rage power, and you never really need to worry about hitting.
I would also recommend being NG and worshipping Erastil for the trait that lets you ignore cover from one ally, which will make PFS ranged combat a lot easier on you.
Human also lets you start with Point Blank and Precise Shot. Then you take Rapid Shot/Multi-shot/Deadly Aim/Cluster Shot.
That's my recommendation at least.
A +10 Str Bonus Bow is +1000gp. Adaptive, is +1000.
Exceptional Pull, will basically be useful, until I can afford Adaptive.
This also means, I won't have to keep selling a 50%, then buying a Bow of higher Str rating.
Thinking about it, it will allow me to hold out for a little while.
and the +5 bow is 500, and will get you up to +7. And with your str of 2, +2 for rage, +3 for belt and you're looking at a +7, so you're getting all you need for half the price. Add another +1 or +2 if you think you'll need it, but it's still cheaper than adaptive. Thus meaning you'll never need to buy adaptive.
Off-hands don't exist outside of two-weapon fighting.
Also, a Bow isn't a two-handed weapon. It's a Ranged weapon, that requires two hands to use.
How is the AC lost?
Technically you might be right. There are good reasons to consider it the other way though. Since you are planning on this for PFS, where you can't get a ruling from your GM ahead of time, unless there is a specific clarification I'm not aware of, I would avoid doing this.
I'm sure you are aware that is is right on the edge of the rules and debatable. It is polite in an organized play setting to try your best to stay away from the edge and avoid controversy and make things easier on your GMs and fellow players.
Yeah, Zen Archer has the Lawful prerequisite. Otherwise, I would dip.
I suppose, I could put a 2 level dip into Ranger.
Maybe Hooded Champion/Wild Hunter?
You don't have the charisma for hooded champion. And going ranger still leaves you feat starved by 1 feat.
Wild Hunter could be interesting, depending on the animals you could imitate.
If it is for feats? Then yes, figther 2 is not bad. It is a bit boring and Will delay the time where you have all the rage you want. As well as scaling rage powers.
I dont think it is.
You could also easily go:
17/14/16/7/10/7
Modified for Race: 17/16/14/7/10/7
Still gives you the 14 Con (which since you're not taking Berserker of the Society will help with Rage rounds and make you a little more robust). I would then recommend putting your level 4 stat point into strength to get it to 18 for more damage, but some may want it in dex to meet the pre-req for manyshot (though I'd just get a belt to cover that).
While multiclassing isn't "necessary" you're feat progression is slowed by being an elf. Non-negotiable, I know. With that in mind taking a fighter dip isn't a bad idea.
Barb 1 - Point Blank Shot
Fight 1 - Precise Shot
Barb 2 - RP: Reckless Abandon, Rapid Shot
Fight 2 - Deadly Aim
Your level 4 attack routine should look like thus if you're "all in":
mw composite bow (+4 str) - +7/+7 (1d6+11/1d6+11)
40% chance to hit on two shots, averaging 15 per shot. Average CR 6 encounter has 70 hp, so on one hit you're over 20% damage, if you consistently roll 12 or better you can hit up to 40% damage.
At level 5 you have several choices for feat, most likely something that improves your to hit (weapon focus/reckless aim/etc.) but if you feel you're on the curve you can get creative.
That's my opinion anyway, YMMV.
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So let me show you what I mean when I say your build is feat starved.
The following feats are the core of most archer builds: Point blank shot (to act as a gateway for the others), precise shot, rapid shot, deadly aim, manyshot, and clustered shot. You want to take them roughly in that order, although minor switches to the order for personal preference or to take the specifics of a build into account are fine.
So let's say you do a full barbarian build. Your feat progression is going to look something like this...
2- rage power
3- Precise shot
4- rage power
5- Rapid shot
6- rage power
7- Deadly aim
8- rage power
9- Manyshot
10- rage power
11- Clustered shot
12- rage power
So you'r reaching 'mostly ready' by level 7 and 'fully activated' by level 11, though with your strength bonuses to rage you could probably move deadly aim to the end of the chain just to speed things up.
Compare this to....
1- Point Blank Shot
2- Precise shot (Combat style feat)
3- Rapid shot
4- (no feat gained, but you get a nifty animal compainion)
5- Deadly aim
6- Improved Precise Shot (Combat style feat) - Alternately, Manyshot
7- Manyshot (probably)
8- (no feat gained)
9- Clustered shot (probably)
10- Combat Style feat, so either Improved Precise Shot or Manyshot if you haven't taken them or ... I dunno... Pinpoint targetting? Regardless, you're either into 'just gravy' territory, or you grabbed some other feats earlier and you've caught up by now.
So a Ranger build can be completed by level 9, or level 7 if you're human. And that's with Improved Precise Shot thrown in at level 6, as a 'too good not to take' sort of choice. Note that the Ranger also gains additional bonuses to hit and damage from spells and favored enemy.
1- Point blank shot, Precise Shot
2- Rapid Shot
3- Weapon Focus: Composite longbow
4- Weapon Specialization: Composite longbow
5- Deadly aim
6- Multishot
7- Clustered shot
8+ ... whatever you want. Probably the snapshot feat chain, and improved weapon focus/specialization, and DEFINITELY improved precise shot once it becomes available at level 11.
By level 5, the build is mostly online. You're shooting twice with damage bonuses from deadly shot, weapon specialization, the Fighter's weapon training (possibly enhanced by +2 with gloves of dueling), and (if you chosen weapon master Fighter) the ability to reroll a miss every now and again. During the journey to Deadly Aim your damage was kind of underwhelming, but by this point you've about caught up to the rest of the party and you're... respectable.
By level 7, you're a monster. Two additional arrows from multishot and full BAB progression, you penetrate the majority of DR, your damage has increased from deadly aim and (if weapon master fighter) another weapon training increase. And by now, you've saved up enough to add the Holy property to your bow, meaning you're getting +2d6 on each shot vs evil creatures... which is over half of what you face in PFS. That's 5 arrows, 3 at full BAB, with a healthy dose of damage behind each of them. And at this point you're probably saving up to get Boots of Haste for a 6th arrow at full BAB, as well as making your overall attack slightly more accurate.
At this stage, you're either deliberately holding back in order to give the party something to do, or you're playing in Bonekeep.
(Note that a lot of what makes you a monster by level 7 has less to do with being a fighter or a ranger, and more to do with the combination of feats and purchases adding up to make archers awesome.)
My point: both the fighter and ranger builds have deadly shot by level 5, so they're up to competetive with the rest of the party. By the time they have clustered shot (preferably by level 7), they're at the stage where it really doesn't matter what other feats they take. Other classes, such as bard and inquisitor builds, are going to be more feat starved. But they have class features which increase accuracy and damage, just like your barbarian build has rage.
The advantage you'd have with multiclassing fighter is that you'd be able to speed up your feat progression. You'd have deadly aim at level 5, and clustered shot at level 7. Which is the ideal. In trade for this, you lose some rounds of rage, a rage power, and have slightly worse saves.
You can get by with a full barbarian build. You won't be optimal, but you'll definitely be viable. If you want to go that way for roleplay purposes or personal inclination then more power to you. But two levels of fighter will speed your feat progression up noticeably.
Personally I would say level 2.
Especially in PFS, you have to assume that people are going to be in melee a majority of the time, and the -4 to hit will be murder. In a normal setting it may be less of an issue, but you'll feel really useless until you get Precise Shot in PFS.
That's also the reason I recommend Deadeye Bowman as a trait. People WILL get your way and provide the cover bonus to your enemies. Being able to ignore one person providing cover means you can stand behind your BDF and fire away without penalty.
Ah. Thanks Drogos.
BBT- I'd recommend a fighter level at 3 and the second fighter level at 6. That way you get all your needed feats in a timely fashion. If you want precise strike faster then you could take the first fighter level at 2nd, but I figured Reckless Abandon was a pretty good payoff already.
1B- Exceptional Pull, PBS, Run
2B- Reckless Abandon
3F- Precise Shot, Rapid Shot
4B-
5B- Deadly Aim, rage power
6F- Manyshot
7B- Clustered Shot
Reckless Abandon is a great Rage Power for a ranged character. The AC penalty really won't figure into anything (as you should rarely be targeted in the first place). However, the bonus to attack is far less than the penalty for shooting into melee. You'll get more "bang for your buck" by taking Precise Shot earlier.
Otherwise pushing the 2nd level of fighter to 6 like MI suggested helps ensure you get Many Shot and Clustered shot back to back, which is probably a better long term plan than my original suggestion to take the 2nd level at 4 to speed up Deadly Aim.
Hmmmmm....
He's right, you know.