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Heh, I just found out I'd been running the surprise round wrong in that people are flat footed even if they act. I don't assume any credibility.Damn. There goes my delusions of thinking I had credibility.How much are the gold stars worth? Maybe we should just get rid of them if they are causing this much trouble.I just dont see how you could abuse them. That +4 or whatever one a single re-roll wont be game breaking.#
And it is not like having more GM stars really gives you more forum credibility - personally I think it kinda creates a bit of an unfair expectation like "What did that 4 Star GM just say? I can't believe how someone with so many reported games can still say something so [description] " ...
I also just learned that. Just now. When I read your post...
There is no such thing as 'credibility' on these boards when you try to provide some insight into a ruling that is posted who-knows-where and half the board members just respond with something like 'Link please?'
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Heh, I just found out I'd been running the surprise round wrong in that people are flat footed even if they act. I don't assume any credibility.
If this were true, why would there be abilities that make enemies count as flat-footed to you in the suprise round, regardless of whether they've acted? Example: Suprise Attack Rogue Talent
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Wow, that caused some derailing. Ok, the issue that came up was here
specifically: "At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed." [emphasis mine]
You don't have 'regular turns' in the surprise round ("a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin.")
Yeah, I'd always ran it as if you act in the surprise round you're not flat footed after your init is up, but RAW doesn't seem to support it.
IT's better than "You acted in the surprise round, but now you're flat footed again until you go again."
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Unaware Combatants: Combatants who are unaware at the start of battle don't get to act in the surprise round. Unaware combatants are flat-footed because they have not acted yet, so they lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
That means aware combatants are not flat-footed once they have--
nah. i'm not even gonna derail.
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where did you get that? The rules I have seen are pretty simple - if you are aware in a surprise round you act in initiative order - you are still flat-footed before you act, but after you have acted in the round you are no longer flat-footed. Unaware participants can't act in the surprise round and are flat-footed until they act in the first regular round of the combat.
I've never heard that people are flat-footed even if they act - that isn't in any of the rules I have seen (I think however there is a rogue talent that lets them treat people as flat-footed in the surprise or first round of combat even if they have acted)
The Surprise Round
If some but not all of the combatants are aware of their opponents, a surprise round happens before regular rounds begin. In initiative order (highest to lowest), combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a standard or move action during the surprise round. You can also take free actions during the surprise round. If no one or everyone is surprised, no surprise round occurs.
Flat-Footed
At the start of a battle, before you have had a chance to act (specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order), you are flat-footed. You can't use your Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) while flat-footed. Barbarians and rogues of high enough level have the uncanny dodge extraordinary ability, which means that they cannot be caught flat-footed. Characters with uncanny dodge retain their Dexterity bonus to their AC and can make attacks of opportunity before they have acted in the first round of combat. A flat-footed character can't make attacks of opportunity, unless he has the Combat Reflexes feat.
In summary: If you act in the surprise round, you only get a standard or move and act before the regular rounds begin. You are considered flat footed before your first regular turn. So therefore, even if you act in a surprise round, it is not considered a 'regular turn' and you are still flat footed.
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So, pardon me if I am misunderstanding your rules quote, but that also means that anything or anyone who does not get to act in the first round of combat, is also perpetually flat-footed for the entire combat?
Hold Person/Hold Monster for the win, then.
And that would include reinforcements, since they don't get to act on the first regular round of combat, including most summoned creatures?
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So, pardon me if I am misunderstanding your rules quote, but that also means that anything or anyone who does not get to act in the first round of combat, is also perpetually flat-footed for the entire combat?
Hold Person/Hold Monster for the win, then.
And that would include reinforcements, since they don't get to act on the first regular round of combat, including most summoned creatures?
QFE: "(specifically, before your first regular turn in the initiative order)"
Your first regular turn.
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No.
I am going to speak from the perspective of someone involved in an Emerald Spire campaign.
As it stands now, Emerald Spire is essentially a distinct campaign from PFS, but uses the PFS rules for advancement, wealth, etc. This is a good thing, in my opinion.
I don't want my Emerald Spire character to need to switch back and forth between Emerald Spire and PFS scenarios just to advance. What you are proposing would require just that. One session of Emerald Spire, two unrelated scenarios far away. Another level of Emerald Spire, then two more scenarios far away.
Right now, we can explore the levels of the Emerald Spire superdungeon and have it feel like a superdungeon. We can follow up on all of the quests (which my group is doing), and play it as slow as we want. If we switched to 1 XP per level, I know for a fact that my group would not want to follow up on those quests. We just don't have the patience for that if we also need to spend another 8 to 10 hours on scenarios outside of Emerald Spire just to level up our characters so they are ready to adventure on the next dungeon level.
I am not in support of this proposal.
An alternative proposal that I would support: Allow players the option to take an alternative chronicle sheet instead of the standard Emerald Spire chronicle. The alternative would reward 1 XP, 2 PP, 1/3 the gold, and not have the Land Rush boons. But the standard sheet would still be available as well.
In short, Emerald Spire is awesome because it allows C-O-N-T-I-N-U-I-T-Y!
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First regular turn includes the surprise round. It's defining what "before you have had a chance to act" means. Read rogue talent "Surprise Attack" if you doubt.
Regular turn =/= regular round. But there are other ways to act before your first regular turn, such as Combat Reflexes to make AoOs, or Pathfinder Chronicler to gain a free move action. Even if you do those things, you're still flat-footed until your first turn comes up.
/rerail - benefits for modules (or levels of modules) *should* be appropriate for the challenges and effort (including time) it takes to complete.
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First regular turn includes the surprise round. It's defining what "before you have had a chance to act" means. Read rogue talent "Surprise Attack" if you doubt.
Regular turn =/= regular round. But there are other ways to act before your first regular turn, such as Combat Reflexes to make AoOs, or Pathfinder Chronicler to gain a free move action. Even if you do those things, you're still flat-footed until your first turn comes up.
/rerail - benefits for modules (or levels of modules) *should* be appropriate for the challenges and effort (including time) it takes to complete.
So, you say the rewards should be less, because the CR is higher, so you need less encounters, which may take less time, to get the same standard XP amount?
Or am I misinterpreting you?
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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First regular turn includes the surprise round. It's defining what "before you have had a chance to act" means. Read rogue talent "Surprise Attack" if you doubt.
Regular turn =/= regular round. But there are other ways to act before your first regular turn, such as Combat Reflexes to make AoOs, or Pathfinder Chronicler to gain a free move action. Even if you do those things, you're still flat-footed until your first turn comes up.
This is how I've always understood it as well.