Advice on DMing a great wyrm red dragon and super-intelligent and wise NPCs


Advice and Rules Questions


In my game, the party is about to find out that it is the great wyrm Inferno, a red dragon told about in myths, legends and songs said to have died long time ago who has destabilized the realm in the recent events.

I need advice how to DM a great wyrm red dragon. How do you roleplay an ancient, inhumanly wise and intelligent creature? How does it talk?

And how is it even possible to defeat it? Does it not have contingency plans for it´s contingency plans? How is he to be outsmarted by PC´s?


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1. Dragons might be wise and intelligent, but they're also powerful. They don't HAVE to outsmart their foes, they can also kill them. He doesn't need to be all-knowing, he just needs to be smart enough to apply his might.

2. Don't try to think of everything. You can't. Every plan does have a flaw, that doesn't mean the dragon wouldn't use it, but he might be aware of it. Traps and strategies don't need to be foolproof, they just need to be dangerous enough to his enemies to weaken them so that they're easier to eat. Set the DC's to do things high, allow player cleverness to give opportunities to roll to overcome things, but don't let it be automatic success. Be ready to improvise and add things.

ex: if the PC's defeat a trap by jumping over it (a simple solution), let it work. Then in your notes quickly add something to the next trap to prevent that.

3. Roleplaying, there's lots of advice. My main thing is understand what the dragon wants and what it's willing to do to get it. Give it a few character flaws, maybe hubris? He's old and killed every other adventurer/enemy who came to kill him, no reason for him to assume otherwise this time.

4. If the PC's are powerful enough to be a threat, figure out how the dragon would know about it. Maybe it hires spies and has a rough estimate of their capabilities (not a list of their gear, but class/level and how they've defeated previous foes). Maybe divination magic. Let him counter a couple of their obvious tactics.


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If you really feel obligated to play up the intellect of your dragon, and portray it as a master schemer/manipulator, I would recommend opposed Intelligence checks to see if the dragon already thought of that plan and built a contingency for it. Then you as a GM throw together a quick counter for the player's plan.

Really, I don't think that is a good route though as Dragons tend to rely far more on personal power than towering intellect. Red Dragons in particular are very arrogant that way. You could even have the dragon point out the player's plan as they start to implement it and explain the futility of said plan in the face of the Dragon's own might. Don't even bother with contingencies.


Do take into account the base personality of the being as well.

The being might be arrogant or understanding. It all depends on who they are.


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As far as chromatic dragons go, careful plotting is more of a blue thing. Despite their intelligence red dragons are arrogant* enough to just stick with "I'M A DRAGON F+~@ YOU I'M A DRAGON" against 99% of enemies.

*Not to say blue dragons aren't arrogant, they just tend to take more pleasure in the "but i knew that you knew that i knew that you would do that" phase of combat.


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Inferno could also be the proverbial Cranky McOldGuy. " Get outta mah cave, meatbags! "

He has his treasure horde and a comfortable semi-active volcano to sleep in. He doesn't need much of anything, so he's content to chill and play [insert games of preference here]. Maybe he spends a few hours now and then gallivanting around in astral or ethereal form, eavesdropping on the whippersnappers.

Who knows, maybe he whips up a batch of marvelous pigments now and then and uses Craft (paintings) to decorate his demesne in murals of his life.


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Buy the legendary games mythic dragons pdf for some ideas.

Liberty's Edge

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So this may seem... a bit like cheating but lets be honest what happens behind the DM screen is between us and keeping a story awesome.

You want to play up inhumanly intelligent and super wise. If your a good freestyle DM and good at quick thinking. Just sort of toss in things to counter PCs plans as if the villain had anticipated their tiny mortal minds plans far ahead of time. Don't do it too much just enough to give them the impression they are facing an enemy who can think three steps ahead of them so that when you let them outwit the dragon they get to feel like big damn heroes.

On a more fair side, just take your time and set up the dragon and his plans with a dangerous mindset. What would I do if I was playing the dragon. What kind of traps and defenses would a player invest in if they had the dragons resources, what kind of awesome minions would they employ. Think like a player if you want to create a foe who is extremely dangerous to players.


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Ravenovf wrote:
You want to play up inhumanly intelligent and super wise. If your a good freestyle DM and good at quick thinking. Just sort of toss in things to counter PCs plans as if the villain had anticipated their tiny mortal minds plans far ahead of time. Don't do it too much just enough to give them the impression they are facing an enemy who can think three steps ahead of them so that when you let them outwit the dragon they get to feel like big damn heroes.

One way to do it is describe the dragon's preparedness as increasing the difficulty, not negating success. Making checks more difficult still gives the PC's a chance to succeed without just automatically shutting them down.


First, give it the Vital Strike, Improved Vital Strike, and Greater Vital Strike Feats.

When he speaks, he speaks in the Third Person, for he feels that "inferno is the most powerful."

"Why do you scaleless ones feel you are worth seeing the beautiful Inferno, the Great"

If he is surrounded by foes, do a vital strike on one person and move out. Reason being is generally a party can do more damage with a full attack then he can. This way he can also get an attack of opportunity in.

Dragons can cast 9th level spells, give this guy wish, and bump all the ability scores by 5. This is a smart dragon who knows that he has weaknesses. Part of an inferno, is the ability to creep up on someone and go against it. Think of Inferno as a Lawful Evil Red Dragon. Someone that is considered insane even amongst his own kind. Dazzling Display and Shatter Defenses are a good combination for him as well. Quicken Spell to use with True Strike is a skillfull tactic for someone he finds is difficult to hit with power attack + Vital Strike. Mage's Disjunction is my second favorite spell for a Red Dragon.

The reason for wish is this: Ability damage/drain sucks against a dragon if it targets dexterity. A fullattack from a ninja with pressure points with sneak attack will stink. Give him a ring of force shielding that has been enchanted with fortification. Smart dragons know how to deal with foes, and contingencies are always useful. Mage armor will be helpful also.

If the party is a Mage heavy one, cast antimagic field. But still stick to Vital Strike. Most Wizard Parties has at least one arcane trickster.


Hello, here a bit of ideas
first - the dragon's blood: if this being is legend, it must have lots of underling bound to him by blood and ancient paths. Dominated demons, cabals of sorcerers, an ancient line of barbarian warlords with fiery powers. surely those guys shall be the main focus until your pcs will discover the truth about the legend.
Also a great wyrm red dragon stays awake only when there is something worth, otherwise it sleeps since while sleeping it can relive all the greatest moments of his existance. So the idea of him just sleeping somewhere and sending dream messages to minions while he himself enjoys his deep memories is not far away.
Surely thought, if it is a creature of rage, sudden burst can be appreciated. like an entire city that, in 1 night, is completely eradicated, with no survivors except a mad man screaming "the fire, the inferno! the fire!"
Also, such beings should have historical enemies: a gold dragon, an order of knights, a society of druids.

Now, as rules for the stats. lot's of utility magic like telekinesis, reverse gravity and such. no bigbuff magic, unless he's known to be a fighter of other great beasts.
good spells can be: magic jar, teleport, overwhelming presence, elemental body (IV, with gargartuan marma form), spell immunity, and something to completely remove his vulnerability.
A good thing could be a crystal sphere with true seeing to allow him to be an invisible omniscent master.
Now, about the fight, you must choose: home fight or doom fight.
home fight: the dragon is faced in his home, so he gains home advantage (minions, lava floors, permanent dampering magic).
doom fight: the dragon appears ON the players houses and each round that is not engages something precious for them is utterly destroyed.

I've given my suggestions.


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For quick crunch and tactics (and great backstories) check out: Rite Publishings Red Dragons (there's a free preview mentioned in the product discussion)
Legendary Games Mythic Monster XIII Dragons


PCs fighting a great wyrm red dragon better have fire protection/immunity and should be able to fly or have a strong ranged attack. If they don't, they've already lost. The dragon should also know this and prepare to counter those things first.

You'd probably have greater arcane sight to identify the spells on your opponents, then, while flying, start with an area greater dispel magic or mage's disjunction. If successful in removing their fire protection, follow up with a breath attack.

After that, separate the party. Target the opponent who appears to to be the biggest threat. If he has freedom of movement, quicken dispel magic it first, then grapple that character at -20 to use one limb. Remember, you have 30 ft. reach and can grab someone without touching the ground. Then, fly as far away as you can with the character, preferably gaining altitude in case you need to drop him. Maneuver around obstacles to avoid ranged attacks if possible, or place a cloud spell below you to block line of sight.

If there are flying opponents following you, if it is by spell, dispel it, or if by magic item, sunder it. Or there are other options, like hold person, etc.

Once safely in the distance, kill the opponent you are grappling however you choose. Melee, more breath weapon, drop him, etc. If your health is in good shape, you can fly back for more, targeting a new opponent. If you are in bad shape already, leave and come back again when you are ready. You didn't live to be a great wyrm by being reckless.

Don't fight in a confined space unless you absolutely have to.

Dark Archive

Ravenovf wrote:

So this may seem... a bit like cheating but lets be honest what happens behind the DM screen is between us and keeping a story awesome.

You want to play up inhumanly intelligent and super wise. If your a good freestyle DM and good at quick thinking. Just sort of toss in things to counter PCs plans as if the villain had anticipated their tiny mortal minds plans far ahead of time. Don't do it too much just enough to give them the impression they are facing an enemy who can think three steps ahead of them so that when you let them outwit the dragon they get to feel like big damn heroes.

On a more fair side, just take your time and set up the dragon and his plans with a dangerous mindset. What would I do if I was playing the dragon. What kind of traps and defenses would a player invest in if they had the dragons resources, what kind of awesome minions would they employ. Think like a player if you want to create a foe who is extremely dangerous to players.

This is how i usually go about designing my stories and quests, i create and awesome bad guy and treat him as a player with lots of resourses. I then determin, what are his goals, how did he get to were he is, how is he gonna acomplish his goals, what precautions has he taken to ensure good guys have a hard time interupting him.

This makes for well thought out badguys and can create an entire campign if expanded on greatly.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Kraftword wrote:

In my game, the party is about to find out that it is the great wyrm Inferno, a red dragon told about in myths, legends and songs said to have died long time ago who has destabilized the realm in the recent events.

I need advice how to DM a great wyrm red dragon. How do you roleplay an ancient, inhumanly wise and intelligent creature? How does it talk?

And how is it even possible to defeat it? Does it not have contingency plans for it´s contingency plans? How is he to be outsmarted by PC´s?

How do you roleplay someone more vastly intelligent than you are?

To quote Erick Wujick late creator of Amber Diceless Roleplay in presenting the question...

You cheat. Whatever the players plan, He's already figured out the player's plans, and outcome and turned it into his advantage.

If it's really old and really intelligent, it may enjoy letting it's game with the PC's last because it's really really bored.

With this in mind, the real answer is how do you want the arc to play out?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This is from an earlier post of mine a couple of years back...

Here's a bit of text from the late Erick Wujick that might help your perspective. It's a quoted section from Amber Diceless Roleplay.

Being Smarter Than You Are.

Here's a shocker.
You, the Amber Game Master, are not as smart as any of
the elder Amberites. Yet it's your main job to role-play them
accurately. You have to hatch the kind of plots that this devious
lot might come up with, and plan grand strategy, and appear
to be always one step ahead of the player characters.
Amberites routinely engage in manipulations so subtle that
their actions are completely invisible. For example, having put
some scheme into motion, an Amberite might communicate
with his confederates with a signal as slight as the arching of
an eyebrow, or the tiny adjustment of a bouquet of flowers.
So how the Hell are you, a mere Shadow dweller,
supposed to emulate all that?

Trickery. Pure Game Master trickery.

Backwards Planning.

When things are winding
down to a close, and it's obvious how a phase of the campaign
will end, have elder Amberites show up at the last minute.
Having been unavailable throughout the entire story, they'll
appear at this point of closure, having arranged for everything
necessary to defeat the threat, their explanation being that they
had planned for that contingency all along.

Assuming the Best.

When in doubt assume that the
elder Amberites know exactly how to deal with every problem.

Free Peeks at the Universe.

It's impossible to
categorize all of Dworkin's powers, or Oberon's, or Fiona's.
Still, it's pretty safe to assume that they can see a lot farther
than anyone else. From a Game Master's view, it's as if some of
the elder Amberites get free peeks at what is happening in the
universe.

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