Shadow Conjuration and created objects

[Xexyz]

Consider the following scenario: A an arcane caster is fleeing from enemies and runs through a pair of doors. She looks to bar the doors behind her but has nothing to bar them with. Thinking quickly, she casts greater shadow conjuration to create a metal beam via the spell major creation. What happens?

1. Can she even pick up the metal beam she created, or - since she cast the spell and knows the beam isn't completely real - only have a 60% chance of actually interacting with it?

2. Suppose instead she conjures the beam right into the door's baring mounts (the doors open inward and there are a pair of mounts on either side for a baring beam). Does this actually work when the enemies try to get through the door? The enemies on the other side have no idea there's even an effect in place since it's on the other side of the door. Does the shadow beam keep the door shut, does it fail, or does it have a 60% chance of working?

[Secane]

"Shadow conjurations are only one-fifth (20%) as strong as the real things"

So I guess it would be a metal beam with only 1/5 a real metal beam's hp, hardness...etc?

[Xexyz]

Secane wrote:

"Shadow conjurations are only one-fifth (20%) as strong as the real things"

So I guess it would be a metal beam with only 1/5 a real metal beam's hp, hardness...etc?

Hmm, I guess that would be correct (although 60% in this case per GSC). So what about question #2 then? Do the people on the other side of the door who are trying to get in automatically count as disbelieving? Or if they realize the door is barred to they count as believing until they get a chance to interact with the bar, per the normal illusion rules?

[ConfusedPeon]

By RAW it doesn't work. Since you're creating beams to bar the door, you'd be affecting the door, not the people breaking it down. Thus it's the door that should be making the will save.

Unfortunately, objects always succeed on their save against shadow conjuration (as per the last line of the spell text), so the spell shouldn't have any effect on someone trying to break the door down.

As for your other questions:

1. It depends on the GM. RAW you can voluntarily choose to fail a save (including those of spells you cast yourself), but some GMs might frown at this.

2. Same issue as the original case. You can't really affect objects with this spell since they always make their save.

[Xexyz]

ConfusedPeon wrote:

By RAW it doesn't work. Since you're creating beams to bar the door, you'd be affecting the door, not the people breaking it down. Thus it's the door that should be making the will save.

Unfortunately, objects always succeed on their save against shadow conjuration (as per the last line of the spell text), so the spell shouldn't have any effect on someone trying to break the door down.

Except for the fact that even if the save is made, the object is still 60% real. So it would seem then you have a metal bar that's 60% as strong as a real metal bar. The DC to bend an iron bar is 24, so in this case the DC to bend the shadow bar would be 14 then? Hmmm...

[Zwordsman]

Probably.

ALso while you you are casting the spell on the door sort of.. the door thinking it's real doesn't even matter. After all, you creating a wall in a doorway instead the walls know the illusion is fake. or making the appearance of an open doorway where it's a solid wall. but it's not like that causes issues for anyone else seeing the wall. That wall isn't telling people it's fake just as the barred door isn't.
The people pushing would still have to interact with it when they push the door. So they would will save it. If they failed they would get the sense of something heavy like a steel bar is blocking the path. If they succded they would still feel something heavy. but not that heavy.
That is because it's shadow, instead of a straight illlusion. A straight illusion would have no real matter, since the interaction is opening the door, it would just.. open through it while they looked momentarily confused at the door opening through a steel beam. WIth the shadow they are opening it, and hitting an actual blockage-the strength of which is determined by their will save because they are interacting with it (by opening the door, or if the door isn't fitted very well they might even see the steel bar)

DC would be the same but the belief for the person would be different. WHich could have affects on their actions or thoughts about it.
Whether or not they fail or succed the objects actual in game strenght is always that 60% real. Just if they fail they act like it was stronger (they're fooled into using less of their strength thinking they aren't for Str check sorta things. Though if they blasted the door it would use the 60% because objects auto succded)

Since if i'm chasing someone I hit the door and push and "feel like it's really heavy" I might decide to try running to a different door or to try and cut them off elsewhere assuming I won't be able to get the door open. Or instead of pushing or ramming the door(which the DC to break the steel beam is easier to do due to it being shadow) I might start hacking at the door via sundering. or call for my wizard friend to open a DDoor, or to blast it with force/acid or my barbarian friend to raging sunder. Which means I'd have to break the door Then the steel beam. wasting resources that otherwise might not have done if I didn't think it was a real solid thick steel beam like object.

So even if the door auto succeeds, when each person interacting with it interacts they also have to save and adjust their thoughts accoridingly.

Hell the first person to get to the door and start pushing might be someone with bad will saves, fail their saves then call out for their allies about the barred door, so those allies never even get the chance to try and disbelieve and simply take one of the above options (bypassing, blasting from afar, or charging enmass at the door. Which if one gm wanted to be funny.. Would cause them to take reflex saves because the door "busts" far too easily than anyone was expecting)

Just my thoughts on it. Not sure how accurate they may be