Huge Creatures with Combat Reflexes

[KoverasAlvane]

So I had a situation in a recent game where we fought an efreeti (Large creature, +16/+11 attack with a falchion, Combat Reflexes among other feats). It won the initiative, so the first thing it did was change size to Huge, afterwards which it just waited. My paladin charged in and, naturally, provoked an AOO -- or rather, our GM ruled that because it had reach 15 ft. and Combat Reflexes, my paladin provoked TWO AOOs during his charge. And the longer I think about it, the less sense it makes.

Essentially, what is being said is that CR allow a Huge creature to make a Full-Round Attack at full attack bonus out of turn in the time it takes the charging (!) character to make a single 5 ft. step. In other words, imagine this 3x3 giant somehow being able to attack a creature rapidly closing in on it, draw its sword (that is larger than said creature) again, and attack it once more with better precision than if it took a full round to do so and the creature was standing right in front of it.

I realize that RAW say that that's how it is, but to me, this particular use of this feat makes absolutely no narrative sense. There should be a rule that a charging character only provokes once from a single enemy, regardless of its reach, or something. :-/

[Arachnofiend]

That actually isn't how it is; a single action can only provoke a single AoO from a single creature. Your Paladin should have only been hit once on the charge; if, however, someone else had charged in (or if you had done something else that provoked an AoO) then the Efreeti would have been able to hit again.

[Bob Bob Bob]

"What is being said" is wrong.

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity wrote:

If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

Bolding mine.

[KoverasAlvane]

Thanks! Does it say so ("one action = one AoO") in the CRB? I have trouble finding that passage right now. :(

The efreeti actually did another AoO that round, against our second paladin who charged right after me. Even though its Dex should have been reduced to 15 by the enlargement...

EDIT: Thanks, Bob Bob Bob, I found it now!

[lemeres]

Normally, an action only provokes once.

I mean, there is a magical weapon property that changes that. Fortuitous is a +1 property, which allows a second AoO at BAB-5 for the same action. It can only do this 1/round though, and it still eats up another of your AoO limit (did it get in 3 AoOs total, or 4 after hitting you both twice? Because with combat reflexes, that monster should have 1+DEX AoOs per round).

I would advise GMs to only use this weapon property in an 'earn you loot' kind of situation. Like an Efreeti with a rapier, in a party with a swashbuckler (there are items that let you resize weapons one step, so it would not exactly go to waste). Overall, it should be a challenge meant to have the pay off in the form of getting that cool magical item that you are now drooling over.

[wraithstrike]

KoverasAlvane wrote:

Thanks! Does it say so ("one action = one AoO") in the CRB? I have trouble finding that passage right now. :(

The efreeti actually did another AoO that round, against our second paladin who charged right after me. Even though its Dex should have been reduced to 15 by the enlargement...

EDIT: Thanks, Bob Bob Bob, I found it now!

In some cases one action can provoke more than once, if the one action consist of several provoking acts. Casting a spell that requires a ranged touch attack is an example. Charging is another if the movement and the attack* itself provokes.

*combat maneuver that you do not have the correct feat for.

[Serisan]

Combat chapter, CRB wrote:

Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity bonus to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.

Just putting the full section up. There are other relevant things in there that address the situation that I've bolded.

[KoverasAlvane]

Thanks, guys. I talked with my GM about this, and he agreed that he ruled incorrectly. We will be wiser in the future. :)

[Akerlof]

Next time you GM (or get enlarged) remember the proper way for big creatures to get multiple attacks of opportunity from their reach: Trip them on the first AoO. Then they'll have to stand up and you can get another. The enemy doesn't even get to make an attack that round! =)

[Spook205]

Akerlof wrote:

Next time you GM (or get enlarged) remember the proper way for big creatures to get multiple attacks of opportunity from their reach: Trip them on the first AoO. Then they'll have to stand up and you can get another. The enemy doesn't even get to make an attack that round! =)

Had an enlarged barbarian with a reach weapon and combat reflexes use this trick on a rogue once.

Rogue (scout archetype) goes charging in, provokes AoO from moving through threatened square. Gets tripped as the AoO. Greater Trip Procs, he gets whalloped as soon as he's down for a big hunk of his hit points. He stands up. Provokes from that. Gets whacked unconscious on the AoO.