Question about infants and evil


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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lemeres wrote:
bookrat wrote:
LazarX wrote:
GreyWolfLord wrote:

It's a GM thing.

However, in real life, trying to deny a creatures nature doesn't change the nature.

If you treat a Tiger domestically, will it be domesticated? Perhaps Siegfried and Roy could answer that (their beloved tiger attacked them).

The answer to the Tiger question. A major difference in the evolution of Felis Domesticus involves the lowering of the Fight/Flight fear threshold. Which is why your cat will tolerate you picking it up and put up with many of the things children do if it's raised with children from it's kitten days.

Tigers, and other wild cats however, always remain on that razor's edge. And trainers who forget that will pay a heavy price. Even those who remember, may not always be aware that the trigger may be closer to the surface than usual on any given moment. They are genetically incapable of being domesticated in the way cats and dogs are. Same thing with wild rabbits. you may catch one, feed it and keep it for a couple of weeks, only to find it unexpectedly dead of fright one morning, because of that high fear threshold. (Actually saw this happen at camp.)

Pretty much. in order to get it out of them, you have to breed it out of them. With careful selected breeding, it could take just a few dozen generations.

Interesting experiments go on in that field. Russian researcher attempted to create a 'domesticated silver fox' (use that as your search term) in order to improve the fur industry.

They worked from the idea of how dogs were domesticated from wolves. The general idea was to selectively breed based on the same criteria ancient man might have originally used- which cubs seemed the most docile (or the 'which of these little..... ers bit me, because he is going into the stew' principle).

The interesting result was this- he succeeded in making foxes that were fairly dog like in their tameness...and it resulted in their going dog like as well. Instead of the...

The fox experiement was one of the experiments that I was thinking of when I made that post. As a bonus, it goes a long ways towards exemplifying that when you breed for one trait, other traits may change along with it. I know people who don't beieve this happens when it concerns plants.


I kind of prefer vampires to be Evil. I like to have different degrees of Evil in my games though. There are some Evil folks you can work with. They might even be pretty reasonable most of the time and show at least superficial concern for the well being of others. They also might not hesitate to murder somebody who makes them angry or gets in their way. If you have such urges but never act on them for fear of being caught I wonder if that means you're Evil or Neutral in game terms.

In the typical game world plenty of folks can tame tigers, especially Druids. My girlfriend thinks those Russian domesticated foxes are really cute.


bookrat wrote:

Interesting experiments go on in that field. Russian researcher attempted to create a 'domesticated silver fox' (use that as your search term) in order to improve the fur industry.

They worked from the idea of how dogs were domesticated from wolves. The general idea was to selectively breed based on the same criteria ancient man might have originally used- which cubs seemed the most docile (or the 'which of these little..... ers bit me, because he is going into the stew' principle).
The interesting result was this- he succeeded in making foxes that were fairly dog like in their tameness...and it resulted in their going dog like as well. Instead of the beatiful silver fur they were looking for, they got the kind of patching fur appropriate for a pet named 'spot', or something similar to a husky. They also acquired a few other dog like behaviors.

Basically, dogs today are pretty much a direct result of how we treated them early on. Whether you would get quite the same reaction from noncanines is questionable... but yeah, you could literally make predictions based off of house cats given this kind of trend.

It seems like you ought to be able to control for that - working on multiple traits at the same time. If they're truly gene-linked it might not work, but if there's any variance you should be able to get the more domesticated version and keep the fur. Might take longer though. Possibly much longer, depending on the genetics involved.

As for dogs, I don't know about just canines. Part of it is that they're pack animals. Much of what we did was just hijacking that existing mechanism, setting them up to see us as pack. Probably much harder with solo hunter species.

Liberty's Edge

Official Answer to this question in Golarion found here.

To quote it:

James Jacobs wrote:
An orc raised in a non-evil, non-chaotic society is not "hard-wired" to be evil.

So...yeah.

Additionally, given canonical non-Evil vampires and demons in Golarion, applies even to them (though it's noted as much harder for Undead or alignment-subtype Outsiders to not be Evil).

There isn't, and probably can't be, an official world-neutral answer, given that this sorta thing will vary from world to world...but I like and prefer the implications of anyone being able to be Good, so I pretty much always go with the one used in Golarion.


thejeff wrote:

It seems like you ought to be able to control for that - working on multiple traits at the same time. If they're truly gene-linked it might not work, but if there's any variance you should be able to get the more domesticated version and keep the fur. Might take longer though. Possibly much longer, depending on the genetics involved.

As for dogs, I don't know about just canines. Part of it is that they're pack animals. Much of what we did was just hijacking that existing mechanism, setting them up to see us as pack. Probably much harder with solo hunter species.

That is why the use of a fox for this is significant, since they primarily hunt alone (although I suppose there is some precedence for them hunting together when they are not competitors).

But even if we restricted ourselves purely to known pack animals, that still raises the question of lions in the feline family.

But back to topic- I propose a program where we finally, once and for all, attempt to take on the monumental task of domesticating babies. The now feral population is a plague upon our society.

Liberty's Edge

Odds are you can try to raise a monster baby to be a good person. However I'm not sure anyone wants to spend five years of downtime raising little goblin Annie and her two dozen or more siblings and cousins up to understand morality and kindness. More over when trying to save a handful of goblins (who in theory are thinking beings who can make their own life choices at some point) doesn't do much to save people from the countless other predatory blood thirsty evil monsters that typically call a high fantasy world home.


Ravenovf wrote:
Odds are you can try to raise a monster baby to be a good person. However I'm not sure anyone wants to spend five years of downtime raising little goblin Annie and her two dozen or more siblings and cousins up to understand morality and kindness. More over when trying to save a handful of goblins (who in theory are thinking beings who can make their own life choices at some point) doesn't do much to save people from the countless other predatory blood thirsty evil monsters that typically call a high fantasy world home.

You certainly can't raise them while adventuring, they will only become murder hobos then.

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