| DungeonMastering.com |
Hi folks.
My Halfling took a level dip into the Mouser Swashbuckler Archetype & last night was the first time I got to use any of the abilities.
The party was fighting a glabrezu & after it attacked then missed my character, I spent a Panache point & activated Underfoot Assault (Ex). So I moved 5' into the demon's space (which per the ability did not count against my movement the next round, and it didn't provoke attacks of opportunity). After a few rounds, the fight was going badly & I wanted to get the heck out of there.
Here's where the rules question comes in.
"The mouser can move within her foe's space and leave the foe's space unhindered and without provoking attacks of opportunity, but if the foe attempts to move to a position where the mouser is no longer in its space, the movement provokes an attack of opportunity from the mouser."
*My interpretation was that the Mouser can bug out & leave-leave the foe's space. I had him do a double Move to get the hell away.
*My DM's interpretation was this part of Underfoot Assault meant that my character could only safely go back to where he started the Underfoot Assault. i.e. 5' And anything beyond that provokes AoO. (particularly since the Huge Demon had 15' reach.)
So, the rub is this: what does "leave the foe's space" actually mean in Pathfinder? Does 'leave' mean 'go as far away as you want' or does 'leave' mean, 'only back to your own space?'
Thanks & Happy Friday folks.
Howie23
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I agree with your GM. You leave the space when you move into an adjacent square. That is protected. After that, you are no longer moving out of foe's space and are no longer protected.
| DungeonMastering.com |
Makes sense with those explanations, thank you. I could have used Acrobatics to avoid the AoO but wanted to move at full speed, & the +10 to the DC to do that would have probably been too much vs the Glabrezu's CMD was what I was thinking.
Related-question, since I'd be moving at full-speed & I ended up with the AoO anyways, is there any reason to not at least try? Does using Acrobatics this way 'use up' an action or could I still have used both my Move + my Standard Action to move again, with the DC to avoid being +10?
| Byakko |
"You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10."
You handle the acrobatics check as per normal, but you increase the DC by 10 if you're moving full speed instead of half. Note that you need to declare you're using acrobatics as you pass through the threatened square. If they're already taking their Attack of Opportunity, you've missed your window of opportunity to use Acrobatics.
This is part of movement, so it doesn't really impact your move/standard action economy. Use them as you see fit.
| Archaeik |
Related-question, since I'd be moving at full-speed & I ended up with the AoO anyways, is there any reason to not at least try? Does using Acrobatics this way 'use up' an action or could I still have used both my Move + my Standard Action to move again, with the DC to avoid being +10?
You also risk losing your ability to complete your move if you choose not to use acrobatics, but only if your opponent chooses a combat maneuver that restricts movement instead of a normal attack or if they have Grab.
Also, as the player you are not supposed to know how many AoO's a creature has left w/o prior experience (on that character) or a successful knowledge check to identify its abilities, (or whatever other in-game ways exist to know).
Most creatures only get 1 AoO per round, but expenditure should not prevent the player from being able to declare and roll an acrobatics check in this manner, with failure stopping their move and provoking (even though the opponent could no longer act on that opportunity).
edit: also, depending on your reading, this may apply
If you take damage while using Acrobatics, you must immediately make another Acrobatics check at the same DC to avoid falling or being knocked prone.
so failure could end up being quite bad
| Byakko |
Acrobatics wrote:In addition, you can move through a threatened square without provoking an attack of opportunity from an enemy by using Acrobatics. When moving in this way, you move at half speed. You can move at full speed by increasing the DC of the check by 10. You cannot use Acrobatics to move past foes if your speed is reduced due to carrying a medium or heavy load or wearing medium or heavy armor. If an ability allows you to move at full speed under such conditions, you can use Acrobatics to move past foes. You can use Acrobatics in this way while prone, but doing so requires a full-round action to move 5 feet, and the DC is increased by 5. If you attempt to move through an enemy's space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity.
You also risk losing your ability to complete your move if you choose not to use acrobatics, but only if your opponent chooses a combat maneuver that restricts movement instead of a normal attack or if they have Grab.
Also, as the player you are not supposed to know how many AoO's a creature has left w/o prior experience (on that character) or a successful knowledge check to identify its abilities, (or whatever other in-game ways exist to know).
Most creatures only get 1 AoO per round, but expenditure should not prevent the player from being able to declare and roll an acrobatics check in this manner, with failure stopping their move and provoking (even though the opponent could no longer act on that opportunity).
edit: also, depending on your reading, this may apply
If you take damage while using Acrobatics, you must immediately make another Acrobatics check at the same DC to avoid falling or being knocked prone.so failure could end up being quite bad
Alright, there's some significant misunderstands in the above post.
First, the mouser can move within the foe's space and exit it without provoking. Thus, the bolded line isn't applicable as the mouser is not provoking for movement within the foe's square in the first place.
Furthermore, the chance to lose the move action is only related to failing to "move through an enemy's space" by use of acrobatics. If the mouser somehow otherwise provokes an AoO while in a foe's square, they do not have the potential to lose their move action.
Finally, that last quote about having a chance to fall prone if you fail an acrobatics check is only relevant for the section under which it's given: "Cross Narrow Surfaces/Uneven Ground". This is really something you should know, not some obscure Mouser related rules issue.
| Byakko |
galahad2112: Yep. :)
Oh, btw, although it's very unlikely to come up, being tripped doesn't technically end your move action. You just can't continue to move since you're prone. If there was some way for you to get un-prone in the middle of your move action, you could in theory continue it.
Similarly, if you got grabbed (the monster ability) on an AoO and you had Freedom of Movement up, I believe you could continue to move afterwards.
| Byakko |
Byakko wrote:You just can't continue to move since you're prone. If there was some way for you to get un-prone in the middle of your move action, you could in theory continue it.I have a Belt of the Weasel, I assume that would that work?
It grants its wearer a +2 enhancement bonus to Dexterity, and the ability to move at half normal speed while prone.
Hmn, yeah. I guess that would work... nice example.
After getting knocked prone, you could continue to move at half your speed.