Ok, a little preface.
The group with whom I play pretty much all have a lot of RPG experience. We're mostly past the stage where we want to just build the most hyper-optimized character builds found on the internet. Instead, we like to find character types that are a little bit more "out there" and then try to optimize them as far as possible while staying within the context of the original (sub-optimal) character concept.
I've had this idea of making a character who specializes in Two Weapon Fighting with two Whips of all things. The image in my head of the character wailing around himself in all directions with two whips simultaneously is entertaining to me (I just now thought about the bad guy in the second Iron Man movie, and with some cool enchanted whips...yeah, I like that). However, both using whips and TWF are both quite Feat intensive.
It appears I'll be able to use the Adopted Trait to get the whip proficiency from Hobgoblin (I think this is a bone being thrown to me, for which I am grateful), so at least I don't need the EWP:Whip or to dip Bard or something for that proficiency.
I was originally thinking of Fighter with the archetype for TWF and Human for the additional Feat. Using the trait for the whip proficiency, Feats would begin something like this:
1. Weapon Focus: Whip
1h. Weapon Finesse
1f. Whip Mastery
2f. Slashing Grace: Whip
3. Two Weapon Fighting
After this, I'm not sure where to go. First level, I'd probably do damage with a ranged weapon since the character will probably have a Strength of 10 or less. After getting Slashing Grace, would most likely single wield a whip. Honestly, unless going against lower AC stuff, probably single wield the whip until the Two Weapon Warrior bonuses to hit start at lvl 5, unless I can get an Effortless Lace for the offhand earlier. The question I have is how to proceed from here? How do I make this build actually do damage? Should I go in combat maneuver direction? If so, I'd have to take Agile Maneuvers and the improved maneuvers, too. How about going all into the AOO direction? Then I'd have to take Combat Reflexes and Dodge/Mobility/Combat Patrol....
So, to quit rambling, is this even something that could work, or is it hopeless?
I'd actually take a look at Warpriest. A Human Warpriest gets about as many feats as the Fighter, has better damage off the whips, and has a lot more flexibility due to Blessings, castings, and Fervor being awesome. If you're dedicated to the Fighter it can work, but Warpriest gives so many more options-- including, but not limited to, raw damage.
Combat Reflexes is definitely a feat you want-- you have a Reach weapon and solid Dex, it's a given. I would skip over Dodge/Mobility/Combat Patrol though.
Agile Maneuvers is also worthwhile, but I would skip over the actual Improved maneuvers. You have reach-- really impressive reach-- so provoking the AoO shouldn't matter. Taking just Agile Maneuvers gives you the ability to utilize the maneuvers without pouring too many feats into specializing in them; nothing sucks more than being built to Trip and hitting a dungeon full of centipedes and harpies.
There's a new feat from the Melee Tactic Toolbox that I think will help you.
Phalanx Formation It will remove the soft cover penalty from your allies.
Actually, Warpriest does look like a pretty good idea. It would dramatically improve the damage output of a whip, while keeping the reach and trip/disarm abilities of the weapon. I hadn't even considered that.
Also if you didn't want that trait, Half-Orcs can get whip proficiency by trading in their Weapon Familiarity for City-Raised
And before you take combat reflexes, you'll probably need to pick up Improved Whip Mastery to let you threaten with a whip.
Well, the thing with Whip Mastery is that it requires a BAB of +2. You'd be better served by swapping Slashing Grace and Whip Mastery. Also, yeah dual-wielding whips is a pain in the rear end. To get the full chain of TWF feats, you've got to wait until level 11 to finish, and really, the later TWF feats aren't even all that great, since they grant the later iterative attacks. Couple that with the penalty for TWF in general, and it'll be a rare occurrence that Greater TWF actually allows you to hit an additional time.
Counter-intuitive though it may seem, Whirlwind Attack can actually be more powerful, with better situational benefits, while being at least as cost effective as TWF.
Another possible route is to keep the Fighter idea, but only take 3 levels in the Weapon Master archetype. Then take the Sohei Monk archetype for at least 6 levels, preferably 8. This way you can flurry with your whip(s). As a Dex based character, taking either the bow or crossbow weapon group with your Sohei weapon training might be a decent idea as well.
Something else to consider: If you take either of these options, you can go Str-focused which will save you 2 feats.
If you do end up going the TWF route, I do think that the Two Weapon Warrior is a good choice.
As for Race, I am always fond of Half-Orcs. The City Raised, Toothy, and Skilled alternate racial traits make them vastly superior to humans in my mind. Shaman's Apprentice is also nice. Basically you trade the Human's bonus feat for a primary natural weapon that doesn't use hands, Whip and Longsword proficiency, a bonus on Knowledge(local) checks, and the Endurance feat. The bite attack alone is worth at least a feat, and all the other goodies are just icing on that incredibly tasty cake.
I totally agree that the dual whip guy from Iron Man 2 is freakin' cool. I'd probably go with Brilliant Energy, Shocking, and Corrosive as my weapon enchantments (though probably not all on the same whip, that's super expensive)
The AoO direction can be profitable, but really the best way to do so is with an animal companion and teamwork feats. Of course, there's also Greater Trip, which will generate a ton of AoOs. If you're going the Whirlwind route, a bunch of the prerequisites are already met. But it's still VERY feat intensive.
Yeah, that Warpriest idea is pretty hot too.
Incidentally, if you're not totally set on emulating Whiplash, or the GM will let you totally reflavor things:
The Sacred Fist Warpriest qualifies for Crusader's Flurry, so since you already have a way for him to get proficiency in the Whip, you could utilize that over TWF. You don't have the huge feat array of the standard Warpriest (well you do, but mostly they're stuck in Style feats so mreh), but you can get TWF without actually bothering with those feats.
That said, you don't get to actually be Whiplash so that may or may not work for you. Just a thought.
First, while using a whip (and having weapon finesse) you get dex to CMB for free with any maneuver using the Whip. This is true of all finesse weapons, not just the whip.
Second, the improved maneuvers are good for the +2, but you already have the ability to not provoke by simply not standing near the foe thanks to the 15ft reach.
All you need for the AoO route is Combat Reflexes and Improved Whip Mastery. Since you need to wait till 5th to get the IWM, combat reflexes can wait till 6th if you like, or grab it at 4th.
Damage is tricky. Whips just do not do much damage. The only real way to increase the damage is with abilities like holy, bane and elemental. However, as a fighter, taking weapon specialization is a good idea.
To your original concept, Whiplash. It is difficult. You are never gonna slice a car in half for instance. You have the basics of what is needed to make Whiplash work, it is just not effective in damage. Whips are very effective with debuffing and controlling the battlefield however.
A cruel Whip with someone with enforcer can make someone Prone, Weaponless, Shaken and Sickened. All in about 1 turn at level 6. (Hit with primary activating enforcer, cruel whip secondary to trip and sicken, disarm with primary second attack)
To do this, 4th level take Enforcer, 5th take improved whip mastery, 6th for I2WF. Then pump Intimidate as high as possible and buy the +1 cruel whip.
galahad2112 wrote: Yeah, that Warpriest idea is pretty hot too. Warpriest for all the people who needs to play with the weird weapons that nobody ever uses and still make them viable.
I appreciate everyone's advice on this. I'm feeling a lot less like this was a hopeless enterprise. I appreciate the different ideas, and I'll have to play around with them to see which works best.
Haha...I know I won't be slicing cars in half and such, but glowing, magical whips spitting of sparks of energy as they slash through the air is close enough for me :)
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