I've been considering implementing Mythic rules into my upcoming kingdom building sandbox campaign, but I'm also somewhat concerned about my players steamrolling the non-mythic aspects of my campaign.
So I'm considering Mythic only being active when I say it is. They might be mythic for 1 combat, 1 day, or 1 month, depending upon the nature of the challenge they face. What say you? Would this be a good house-rule? Or would this be a headache if you were one of my players?
If you let them choose when to use it it's just fine. Toggling it on for special battles is a bit metagamey. But giving them mythic abilities they can use very occasionally at their discretion is fine.
That's interesting... It'd require me to draft up specific rules/limitations in that case. I was of course thinking the opposite; it'd be under GM control. Something like:
As Sting glows blow when orcs are near, PCs go mythic when mythic bad guys are near.
OR
Some benevolent/capricious/malicious/bored/whatever deity (or other powerful being) guides the fate of the PCs by granting them power whenever the deity feels like it. It eventually becomes a plot point to find the source of the mythic power, and something happens. (Benevolent deity? Maybe there's some path to permanently gaining mythic power. Malevolent deity pulling the strings? Defeat it and... something happens.)
Mythic has various means for which it can be granted; using an item (possibly an intelligent one) or a god can handle this easy from a story perspective. If you want it to be a one-off I'd use an item, god is easier for multiple uses.
How important are the non-mythic aspects? That is to say, can you just bring them up a bit in power to compensate?
I was intending to just straight run mythic, but I have so many systems I'm trying for the first time (Downtime, Kingdom Building, Magic Schools, Heroic Progression mitigating the Christmas Tree Effect... Probably more.) that Mythic seems like one more thing I have to take into account for everything.
Not to mention this Q&A with James Jacobs intimidated me:
5) On that note, actually... do you still want to fix Mythic? (Do you even consider it broken?) I got the impression from a previous question that the forum response to WotR left you completely embittered with Mythic. I think the idea was really innovative and cool, and I'd like to see Paizo refine it a bit more, reining in the problematic aspects. (Less extra attacks and unstoppable spells, more Seven-League Steps and Mirror Dodges, etc.) I hope you and the rest of the staff can find the desire... not to mention the time.5) At this point I'm pretty down on Mythic. A few folks in particular on these boards really wore me down and made me really frustrated and unhappy wiht how Wrath turned out. A classic case of the vocal minority having a STRONG influence on things, as it were. I suspect we'll continue to use mythic on monsters now and then, but at this point, I'm like 98% convinced those rules belong to the GM and not to the players. That, and the fact that there really wasn't a lot of thought put in during the playtest about how mythic impacts high level play, which was PRECISELY what I wanted it for, was frustrating. Yeah, I am indeed bitter about it.
After hearing that and considering my workload and considering the campaign (It's sandbox kingdom building; explore the world kind of thing. I don't want everything to be a mythic undertaking) I just thought I should give up on it.
OR find a solution like I've mentioned in previous posts. Or potentially just move mythic out to later levels so I can get a feel for what my characters can accomplish without Mythic and prepare myself for what they can do with it. (I was thinking of introducing it around level 4 to 6, maybe I should wait until they're inclined to leave the continent? Plane of existence?)
So that's where I'm at with mythic:
1) GM toggle control it.
2) Move it to later levels.
3) Remove it entirely.
I have used it all the way up to level 19/mythic tier 9, I'm not sure I would do it again.
It is an entirely different game.
I throw CR+5, CR+7 and more stuff at them, they curbstomp it.
They literally killed (full hp to dead) a custom Balor with class levels and 5 mythic tiers... in 2 rounds.
He killed one of the pcs (vorpal sword)-they mythic timestopped, true rezzed him and continued the combat.
It totally alters the game.
I would advise one of two ways to use Mythic:
a) Introduce it early (gain one tier every other level, starting at level 2)
b) Don't use it at all
I introduced it later, and it was rough...
I have used it all the way up to level 19/mythic tier 9, I'm not sure I would do it again.
It is an entirely different game.
I throw CR+5, CR+7 and more stuff at them, they curbstomp it.
They literally killed (full hp to dead) a custom Balor with class levels and 5 mythic tiers... in 2 rounds.
He killed one of the pcs (vorpal sword)-they mythic timestopped, true rezzed him and continued the combat.
It totally alters the game.
I would advise one of two ways to use Mythic:
a) Introduce it early (gain one tier every other level, starting at level 2)
b) Don't use it at all
I introduced it later, and it was rough...
^This
I introduced mythic at level 4 and caught them up by level 6/tier 3. They are now level 9/tier 4 and loving it, but they can and have killed up to CR 15 non-mythic without much fuss.
Honestly mythic is going to force me to homebrew all opponents. It is much more work and a very different game but so far lots of fun.
I have used it all the way up to level 19/mythic tier 9, I'm not sure I would do it again.
It is an entirely different game.
I throw CR+5, CR+7 and more stuff at them, they curbstomp it.
They literally killed (full hp to dead) a custom Balor with class levels and 5 mythic tiers... in 2 rounds.
He killed one of the pcs (vorpal sword)-they mythic timestopped, true rezzed him and continued the combat.
It totally alters the game.
I would advise one of two ways to use Mythic:
a) Introduce it early (gain one tier every other level, starting at level 2)
b) Don't use it at all
I introduced it later, and it was rough...
More or less what I was afraid of. The CR system falling apart (more so than it already does) resulting in excessive preparation time for designing challenging encounters and copious amounts of fudging and on-the-fly template adding just to keep combat somewhat interesting. The party is optimized (I'm helping them optimize; whoops) and I have 5 players so I'm probably already going to have to do CR+5 or more for a challenging fight.
I did mention to my players they'd eventually be mythic, but hopefully they'll understand. Or perhaps they'll forget if I never bring it up again. Haha.
I introduced mythic at level 4 and caught them up by level 6/tier 3. They are now level 9/tier 4 and loving it, but they can and have killed up to CR 15 non-mythic without much fuss.
Honestly mythic is going to force me to homebrew all opponents. It is much more work and a very different game but so far lots of fun.
It really could be fun, but I'm wondering if I'm prepared to do all the extra work for designing encounters. Maybe if my players can manage their kingdom without too much hand-holding from me, I could manage.
I would lean towards not using it again... if it is your first time using it, while trying to do kingdom building, be prepared to treat your game like a part time job (20 hours of prep).
Trust me. I have the time, and I still don't always feel prepared for my sessions.
I would lean towards not using it again... if it is your first time using it, while trying to do kingdom building, be prepared to treat your game like a part time job (20 hours of prep).
Trust me. I have the time, and I still don't always feel prepared for my sessions.
I'm an accountant in the middle of tax season. I, uh, probably don't need another part time job. Haha, thankfully this campaign likely won't start until... May? Still, Mythic is seeming like a lot of work that may not necessarily enhance the game. Between Heroic Progression, Magic Schools, and generally giving access to 3rd party material that's useful to their character concepts, I think the party will seem mythic enough.
I've been considering implementing Mythic rules into my upcoming kingdom building sandbox campaign, but I'm also somewhat concerned about my players steamrolling the non-mythic aspects of my campaign.
So I'm considering Mythic only being active when I say it is. They might be mythic for 1 combat, 1 day, or 1 month, depending upon the nature of the challenge they face. What say you? Would this be a good house-rule? Or would this be a headache if you were one of my players?
Best example I can think of a good way to handle this was the three part PFS Adventure Destiny of the Sands. Players got a one time taste of mythic play, had a mythic adventure, and when it was over, they were no longer mythic, but one level higher as a result of the XP they got.
I do not advise that you give Mythic to your players , but keep it in reserve as a tool for your use when you want to throw something challenging at them. If you want to give them a one time taste of mythic the way Destiny did, that's cool. Maybe you can have them encounter a being who grants them mythic powers, sends them on an adventure and then takes them back when it's over. ("Preservation of the Balance and all that chaps.")
But I would strongly suggest that you don't regularly mythic flip flop your players, or give them mythic permanently.
I really like the sound of this; might be the best I can offer my players. Would 1 tier be plenty to feel mythic? Or how many tiers wound you recommend for a "Mythic one-shot"?
One option that a gm in my group went with to give some of the mythic feel but not go overboard was to give specific mythic abilities peicemeal out to the party.
He chose specific mythic abilities and powers to give out to each character that suited them. Basically we got surge, mythic power and one of the chosen 1st level abilities for a relavent path. But we didnt get all the hp, mythic feats etc. You could give out a few specific things that offer options instead of just extra numbers, and it will have less of an impact on players steamrolling normal encounters.
For instance the fighter being able to jump in the air and attack the dragon isnt really going to be all that different to ending the encounter then him pulling out a bow (all things being equal ofcourse) but it does give that mythic feel. You can trickle in certain abilities as you see fit, that way you can keep things roughly at the power level you would like.
One option that a gm in my group went with to give some of the mythic feel but not go overboard was to give specific mythic abilities peicemeal out to the party.
He chose specific mythic abilities and powers to give out to each character that suited them. Basically we got surge, mythic power and one of the chosen 1st level abilities for a relavent path. But we didnt get all the hp, mythic feats etc. You could give out a few specific things that offer options instead of just extra numbers, and it will have less of an impact on players steamrolling normal encounters.
For instance the fighter being able to jump in the air and attack the dragon isnt really going to be all that different to ending the encounter then him pulling out a bow (all things being equal ofcourse) but it does give that mythic feel. You can trickle in certain abilities as you see fit, that way you can keep things roughly at the power level you would like.
That's another thing I was considering, like letting them keep a single path ability as a token piece of awesomeness after completing a Mythic one-shot/arc.
Or I could use it like your GM and simply hand out the ability without ever going into full Mythic rules.