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If you hold your breath, you have a 50% chance of not needing to roll a save against inhaled poisons. Stinking Cloud says it's a poison effect, but doesn't specifically states which poison type it is. Anyone knows if there's any reference in some other place that can clarify this?
Is it wrong to be able to avoid by 50% the effects of a 2nd level spell simply by choosing to hold your breath?
RAW, no. It doesn't mention anything about it being a inhaled poison. It would be a reasonable house rule IMO - the spell is one of the nastiest spells available for its level.
Isn't Stinking Cloud 3rd level? It's awesome for its level, but not that awesome.
And no, since it doesn't say you can hold your breath to avoid it, you can't. Nothing about it suggests it's actually an inhaled effect. Tear Gas, for example, works even if you hold your breath because it screws with your pores and eyes.
Nothing about it suggests it's actually an inhaled effect.
Well, I wouldn't count the name "Stinking Cloud", as something to do with smell, and the nausiating effect that seems to be the result of smelling a horrible "dead cows rottening in the sun for a week" stench as "nothing".
Kchaka names are not rules, and they have no affect on the rules. Stinking cloud is a magical affect, and if there is nothing in the spell telling you that holding your breath works then it won't work. Currently it works as an AoE cloud that poisons you, but requires a fort save.
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Holding breath doesn't even work well against non-magical putrescine. It's the chemical generated by corpses rotting in the sun, which can also be synthesized.
Unless you're fighting magic with Magic, you won't stand a chance.
Folks absolutely despise mundane methods of defeating spells on this board.
However the Amulet linked above lists Stinking Cloud and Inhaled Poisons beside each other. It is a reasonable conclusion to say that you can hold your breath to avoid it's effect.
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Unless you're fighting magic with Magic, you won't stand a chance.
Folks absolutely despise mundane methods of defeating spells on this board.
However the Amulet linked above lists Stinking Cloud and Inhaled Poisons beside each other. It is a reasonable conclusion to say that you can hold your breath to avoid it's effect.
For the exact reason that I like mundane solutions to magical problems, I would also allow it. Then the enemy would dirty-trick gut-punch you to knock the wind out of you. I'd probably require making a spellcraft check or a reflex save to catch your breath before the cloud hits or you'll have to make at least one save against it.
However, by RAW, holding your breath does nothing. Life Bubble would block it, though. And I presume the necklace of adaptation has the same explanation: it isn't the inhalation protection that helps you, it's that the poison doesn't touch you at all!
For me, it really depends on how you rule on ALL of the spells. Does having wet clothing help you against a 3rd level Fireball spell? Can standing next to a long, grounded metal rod improve your chances of saving vs. a lightning bolt? Don't nerf one of them with mundane solutions unless mundane solutions work on other spells too.
Then, don't prevent mundane solutions from working in other instances. If the spell requires a component, then a Disarm should be able to knock it out of the hand.
I don't like it personally (I like my 'mundane' gaming in GURPS, where combat isn't abstracted either), but it's not wrong. It just needs to be consistent, so that you don't unfairly punish some spells that 'seem' easy to defeat.
Unless you're fighting magic with Magic, you won't stand a chance.
Folks absolutely despise mundane methods of defeating spells on this board.
However the Amulet linked above lists Stinking Cloud and Inhaled Poisons beside each other. It is a reasonable conclusion to say that you can hold your breath to avoid it's effect.
That magic item says " as well as inhaled poisons" which shows the the listed spells are not inhaled poisons. What the item does is purify "all harmful vapors and gases". It does not say you are" immune to all harmful vapors and gases that you breathe".
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For me, it really depends on how you rule on ALL of the spells. Does having wet clothing help you against a 3rd level Fireball spell? Can standing next to a long, grounded metal rod improve your chances of saving vs. a lightning bolt? Don't nerf one of them with mundane solutions unless mundane solutions work on other spells too.
Then, don't prevent mundane solutions from working in other instances. If the spell requires a component, then a Disarm should be able to knock it out of the hand.
I don't like it personally (I like my 'mundane' gaming in GURPS, where combat isn't abstracted either), but it's not wrong. It just needs to be consistent, so that you don't unfairly punish some spells that 'seem' easy to defeat.
If someone makes note of such factors, sure. The +2/-2 rule is one of the most powerful tools in the GM's arsenal, great for helping a scene come to life. The ability to "negate" the stinking cloud rather than giving a bonus is for two reasons: first, it's fairly strong for its spell level anyway, and second, it's an ongoing effect rather than instantaneous and will probably affect them for 1d4+1 rounds despite holding their breath (if they were affected even once).
That magic item says " as well as inhaled poisons" which shows the the listed spells are not inhaled poisons. What the item does is purify "all harmful vapors and gases". It does not say you are" immune to all harmful vapors and gases that you breathe".Unless you're fighting magic with Magic, you won't stand a chance.
Folks absolutely despise mundane methods of defeating spells on this board.
However the Amulet linked above lists Stinking Cloud and Inhaled Poisons beside each other. It is a reasonable conclusion to say that you can hold your breath to avoid it's effect.
The item creates a pocket of air for you to breathe. You do not breathe in the Stinking Cloud, thus it does not effect you. It could then be reasonably deduced that holding one's breathe would have a similar effect.
The item creates a pocket of air for you to breathe. You do not breathe in the Stinking Cloud, thus it does not effect you. It could then be reasonably deduced that holding one's breathe would have a similar effect.That magic item says " as well as inhaled poisons" which shows the the listed spells are not inhaled poisons. What the item does is purify "all harmful vapors and gases". It does not say you are" immune to all harmful vapors and gases that you breathe".Unless you're fighting magic with Magic, you won't stand a chance.
Folks absolutely despise mundane methods of defeating spells on this board.
However the Amulet linked above lists Stinking Cloud and Inhaled Poisons beside each other. It is a reasonable conclusion to say that you can hold your breath to avoid it's effect.
I don't know. I think it is reasonable for a GM to use that as a way to be nice to the players. I don't know how reasonable it is to assume since the rules don't mention anything about avoiding magical gas/fumes/fog in that manner.
Well, given the nature of the spell, it's more likelly to think that a poisonous cloud of bad smell will be an inhaled poison, rather than contact, ingestion or injury, but unfortunally they didn't actually write "inhaled".
Even so, one could argue that the very save against the spell already means you'll be trying to hold your breath, or kind of, since we won't be using the ingame mechanics for holding one's breath.
I guess the determining factor should be the strength of the spell for it's level. Was it designed to be able to avoid it, by 50%, if you hold your breath, or would another spell, of the same level and with the same effect but uses heat instead of smell, have the same strength?
The spell doesn't seem that weak to me, functioning almost like a "Lesser Mass Hold Person", "disabling" several creatures from combat for a good amount of time. Couple it with a group of creatures immune to poison, seems "sweet". Nausiating is Naaasty.
As a DM, I guess I would give at least a +2 on the save for holding your breath, as a way of not discouraging players for creative thinking.
If you allow the players to hold their breath, you could ask them to roll constituion checks right from the start (DC 10, +1 for every consecutive round), because otherwise almost everybody can hold their breath for at least 10 rounds with no difficulty. Constitution checks aren't easy, if they succeed they get the 50% chance of not needing to roll a save, and if they fail they don't drown, they just roll the save against the spell normally.
Even so, one could argue that the very save against the spell already means you'll be trying to hold your breath, or kind of, since we won't be using the ingame mechanics for holding one's breath.This. The saving throw is your attempt to avoid and/or resist the effects of the spell.
This is how I rule it. The Saving Throw reflects your reasonable attempts to avoid being affected.
