The Hate of magic?!?

[LazarX]

Anzyr wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Rynjin wrote:

This is true to an extent, but bad example. Flight is one of the staples for casters who don't want to die.

.

Depends on the situation. If the opposing party has ranged options, Flight is a very good way of providing them with a ready target.

Different from all the other ready targets how (aside from complete immunity to non-flying melee attacks)?

It means you're the one that the archer or zen archer has a bead on with no obstructions on it, and you've called attention to yourself as a spellcasting threat.

Reverse the situation, your party has come upon another party and one of their members starts flying with no obvious means of support. Who are you going to focus your attacks on?

[Rynjin]

People seem to be assuming that if you have Fly or Overland Flight cast you must be flying some significant distance above the ground at all times.

Not sure why.

[Anzyr]

LazarX wrote:

Anzyr wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Rynjin wrote:

This is true to an extent, but bad example. Flight is one of the staples for casters who don't want to die.

.

Depends on the situation. If the opposing party has ranged options, Flight is a very good way of providing them with a ready target.

Different from all the other ready targets how (aside from complete immunity to non-flying melee attacks)?

It means you're the one that the archer or zen archer has a bead on with no obstructions on it, and you've called attention to yourself as a spellcasting threat.

Reverse the situation, your party has come upon another party and one of their members starts flying with no obvious means of support. Who are you going to focus your attacks on?

As Rynjin eloquently puts it, why are you assuming there is no cover for someone the minimum amount of distance required to render melee attack unusable?

[Blackwaltzomega]

To be fair, even on the ground the enemies are likely to go for the guy who is unarmored on the basis that they're either an easy first target for an ambush to throw the group into disarray or a caster who needs to be taken by surprise. Flight might call attention to you, but it really depends on what you're up against. If it's a bunch of mooks with crossbows, @#$* 'em, usually. Casters aren't exactly tight on defensive buffs that mean fodder with ranged weapons will have the devil's own time hurting them at all. If they're high-level optimized ranged fighters, things like less-than-total cover aren't going to save you from Improved Precise Shots anyway.

It's an inconvenience against strong ranged options, yes, but it's not a deal-breaker in my reckoning, and making a mockery of the powerful melee encounters that are so common, especially when the party has its fair share of melee fighters the GM wants to have plying their trade, seems worth the risk. And certainly for out of combat utility you can't beat flight for moving around. You think my 6th-level Aerokineticist is ever making a climb check again or picking his way through treacherous terrain once he can fly and feather fall at will forever?

Anything can be turned against you if you're careless, yes, but flight's advantages tend to massively outweigh its disadvantages if you're aware of that, and ready access to it remains ideal.

[graystone]

Charon's Little Helper wrote:

(But frankly - when you bring pet classes into it - you might as well bring up the Leadership/Squire feats.)

You where the one bringing up low level and that's not Leadership territory. Squires is a 1st level follower so it's not really stepping on the feet of class feature pets.

The point is that the martial can be replaced with a pet of a caster while a caster can't be replaced with the pet of a martial...

As far as samurai/Cavalier goes, I assume you have different experiences with them than I. Mine are mostly Mr. charge alot's that throw EVERY option into charge, leaving them with only base options without charge being possible. As our games don't go out of their way to make charge lane possible for large creatures, a caster would be at least as useful. Even medium mounts need straight lines to charge but are more viable.

[LazarX]

Anzyr wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Anzyr wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Rynjin wrote:

This is true to an extent, but bad example. Flight is one of the staples for casters who don't want to die.

.

Depends on the situation. If the opposing party has ranged options, Flight is a very good way of providing them with a ready target.

Different from all the other ready targets how (aside from complete immunity to non-flying melee attacks)?

It means you're the one that the archer or zen archer has a bead on with no obstructions on it, and you've called attention to yourself as a spellcasting threat.

Reverse the situation, your party has come upon another party and one of their members starts flying with no obvious means of support. Who are you going to focus your attacks on?

As Rynjin eloquently puts it, why are you assuming there is no cover for someone the minimum amount of distance required to render melee attack unusable?

If everyone else in their exampls can place their flights in cubes that are featureless, I can as well.

As for cover, that can be a two way street. If forest cover is that of thick canopy you'll usually wind up with two options, Fly low enough that you're really that that much out of reach of thrown weapons, or effectively isolate yourself from contributing to the battle entirely. Remember that cover between you and your foes is a two way street. They have cover and concealment from you as well.

[Charon's Little Helper]

graystone wrote:

You where the one bringing up low level and that's not Leadership territory. Squires is a 1st level follower so it's not really stepping on the feet of class feature pets.

Actually - Squire gives you a cohort just like Leadership - but with a max level of 3 lower instead of only 2 (min of level 1). (And it becomes Leadership.) And no - it doesn't step on pet users' toes, but nothing says that a Samurai can't also have a bard cohort.

graystone wrote:

As far as samurai/Cavalier goes, I assume you have different experiences with them than I. Mine are mostly Mr. charge alot's that throw EVERY option into charge, leaving them with only base options without charge being possible. As our games don't go out of their way to make charge lane possible for large creatures, a caster would be at least as useful. Even medium mounts need straight lines to charge but are more viable.

I'm currently playing a Samurai - and he's not build that way at all. He can charge with a lance - but after that he wades in with his katana.

Actually - that's why I prefer Samurai to Cavalier - they're not as mount focused. (plus resolve is awesome)

[Chris Lambertz]

Locking. We really don't need another one of these threads.