
Barachiel Shina |
From what I have gathered so far, you can't use Concealment for Stealth checks if the lighting is Normal/Bright? So if I hear enemies coming around the corner, I cannot hide in the nearby bushes if it's daytime?! Cause the rules are saying you need Cover for Normal/Bright light to Stealth. Not Concealment.
Or did the developers weigh in on this issue finally and added Concealment back somewhere?
Sounds rather stupid to me you can't duck into the thick foliage or a pile of hay to hide in the daylight.

fretgod99 |

From what I have gathered so far, you can't use Concealment for Stealth checks if the lighting is Normal/Bright? So if I hear enemies coming around the corner, I cannot hide in the nearby bushes if it's daytime?! Cause the rules are saying you need Cover for Normal/Bright light to Stealth. Not Concealment.
Or did the developers weigh in on this issue finally and added Concealment back somewhere?
Sounds rather stupid to me you can't duck into the thick foliage or a pile of hay to hide in the daylight.
Ducking behind a bush provides cover. You don't need concealment if you have cover. So, if there's a bush to hide behind, there's no need to be concerned that you can't find concealment from poor lighting.

ConfusedPeon |
I think he's referring to the rules regarding area lighting. Going from memory, they say something like:
-you can't use stealth in areas of bright light unless you're invisible or behind cover.
-normal light functions exactly the same as bright light, except monsters with light sensitivity aren't dazzled.

thejeff |
You can use concealment in Bright or Normal light.
Bright and Normal Light do not provide concealment, but other things may - underbrush, fog clouds, various magics or other special abilities.
The letter of the rules in the Vision section does say you can't, I believe, but it's almost universally understood to only be referring to concealment from lighting conditions.
Much like the line that says "A creature can't hide within 60 feet of a character with darkvision unless it is invisible or has cover" doesn't actually mean you can't hide behind a bush from normal humans if your buddy the dwarf is next to you.

ConfusedPeon |
2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Quoting the rules for reference:
In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. Some creatures, such as those with light sensitivity and light blindness, take penalties while in areas of bright light. A creature can't use Stealth in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover. Areas of bright light include outside in direct sunshine and inside the area of a daylight spell.
That seems to completely prevent use of concealment for stealthing in bright light. I don't doubt that it's probably unintentional, but an official FAQ response would be nice. (I've been looking around but haven't found any)

thejeff |
Same in normal light:Quoting the rules for reference:
Quote:In an area of bright light, all characters can see clearly. Some creatures, such as those with light sensitivity and light blindness, take penalties while in areas of bright light. A creature can't use Stealth in an area of bright light unless it is invisible or has cover. Areas of bright light include outside in direct sunshine and inside the area of a daylight spell.That seems to completely prevent use of concealment for stealthing in bright light. I don't doubt that it's probably unintentional, but an official FAQ response would be nice. (I've been looking around but haven't found any)
Normal light functions just like bright light, but characters with light sensitivity and light blindness do not take penalties.

DM_Blake |

I am hard pressed to think of a condition where you have concealment that is still bright light.
It a brightly lit field, you dive into a haystack - inside the haystack it is not bright at all. In fact, it's pretty dark in there. Or you hide inside a bush next to a road in bright daylight - under the bush it's dim and shadowy. But if you hid under a tall tree in a bright meadow, it's probably not dim and shadowy and you're probably still in the bright daylight.
So if we're going to get this nit-picky with the rules, then don't use the lighting condition on the surface of the hiding place, but instead use the lighting condition inside the hiding place.
Besides which, the rules for concealment override this anyway - for you to HAVE total concealment from a creature, you must have some situation that blocks his line of sight - obviously, if his line of sight is blocked he cannot attempt to see you (though maybe he might be able to hear you, smell you, etc.). Concealment is just a lesser version of total concealment and the same logic applies - Stealth says you can use it if you have concealment so clearly it blocks (partially) the line of sight, or ability to see you, regardless of lighting conditions.
All the quoted rule really means is that you don't automatically get concealment in normal or bright light (as opposed to the rule that you DO automatically get concealment in dim or worse light).

DM_Blake |

All you would need is to have a curtain between the two individuals. You don't have to be IN concealment. There has to be concealment between you to gain it.
Technically, that constitutes total cover, not concealment - it's a solid barrier ("solid" = "no holes in it") between the observer and the stealther.
If that curtain had holes in it big enough to target the guy behind it, then it would count as cover instead of total cover - but if he's brightly lit behind the curtain, he won't have concealment.
If it's sunny on the observer's side of the curtain (or not, it doesn't really matter what the light on the observer's side is) but it's shadowy (dim light) on the other, then the guy behind the curtain has concealment because of the dim light (not because of the curtain).

Xethik |

I am hard pressed to think of a condition where you have concealment that is still bright light.
Many spells can grant concealment directly (Blur) or by adding fog-like effects (Fog Cloud). I believe that is a large portion of where this questioning stems from.

Komoda |

A curtain is not a "solid" barrier. A solid barrier has to be solid enough to stop a weapon. It will not stop a sword, arrow, or fist.
Anything that blocks line of sight, like a curtain, would provide concealment. If it blocks it completely, it just happens to be total concealment.
Cover...If any line from this corner to any corner of the target’s square passes through a square or border that blocks line of effect or provides cover, or through a square occupied by a...
Paper Walls: Paper walls are placed as screens to block line of sight, but nothing more.
Burst:...It can’t affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don’t extend around corners)...
I imagine that you are not saying that a character can carry a curtain in front of them and become immune to Arrows, combat maneuvers, melee attacks, and even bursts.
There is a saying among firearm enthusiasts to the effect of: 7.62mm, turning cover into concealment for over 50 years.