Personally, I had to look up "ostensive." Still not sure what that sentence means. Of course I did drop out of college. Three times.
School sucks!
Well look, if you're using a different definition of diploma mill than the rest of us, I'm not going to argue that it isn't a diploma mill by your definition. In fact if I had understood that that was the kind of debate that I was going to be drawn into I never would have entered it. I will voice a complaint that you in no way indicated prior to my discovering it that you were using a definition of 'diploma mill' so different from the commonly available one, though.
I feel mildly disgruntled that you weren't clear about any of this to start and that it's only after a page and a half of discussing all this that that it emerges, "Oh, I didn't mean it was THAT kind of diploma mill, you know, the kind indicated by ordinary usage of the phrase."
:/
Actually, until you brought it up, his definition of diploma mill was pretty much the only one I have been familiar with. University of Pheonix, DeVry, ITT Tech are more or less the standard-bearers of the title from what I understand.
Hm. Perhaps I should ease my mild disgruntlement. But I'll still point out that - an hour later now - every single resource I have located so far outside of this thread still is more in line with the stuff I used here, and not the definition that makes possessing a non regional accreditation automatically equivalent to being a diploma mill.
Although Wiki did have a line about how in addition to the primary use there was also a pejorative use of any school that the phrase-user thought had low quality, which is partway there.
So, it's my understanding that those universities might be pejoratively described as diploma mills, but that they actually aren't, they're just bad universities? And that non regionally accredited schools are also not automatically diploma mills, that is something reserved for the more fraudulent ones? And Orfamay disagrees with the latter?
As for actual use of a degree from University of the People, I'm not really sure how I feel about them. I could see a lot of people with the CS degrees stuck in the same position as people graduating from ITT tech, where they are in a hard spot to get a position outside of basic tech support. Business Administration degrees are not really valuable on their own for getting you a job past administrative assistant. That being said, for someone who is on a limited budget, those jobs could very well be a solid step up.
I could also see both of these being useful for professionals looking to expand their education inexpensively. CS knowledge is becoming more important for other engineering disiplines and BAs will definitely help small business owners, even if those degrees will not lead to immediate employment.
BAs will definitely help small business owners, even if those degrees will not lead to immediate employment.
I know my boss never did anything with his other than use what he learned to start a business. I was going to say that he wouldn't likely have been interested in UotP because of money (he was a high altitude guide in Nepal, which paid relatively better than most Nepali jobs), but on second thought I might be wrong. He does occasionally tell horror stories of going from work to school to work to school to work etc without sleep, eating in the car on the way in between, and such. Maybe he would have taken a cheaper option, since he was never going to use the thing academically.
So what does that say about colleges that can't even meet the necessary hurdles for regional accreditation?
Um, are we assuming that the school has sought and failed regional accreditation? It seems to be pretty much brand new, only taking off in the last year or two, and regional accreditation appears to be a years long process.
But. I still think if you're going to brand something a 'card carrying diploma mill' then I shouldn't be able to go looking for lists of warning signs that a school is a diploma mill, and find that the school in question fulfils 0% of them. Or at very least, if you're going to say that in a case where I will be able to do that, you should be clear beforehand that you're working under a (still uncited, despite multiple requests) definition very different from the one I will get in a dictionary , from authoritative institutions, from websites talking about diploma mills, from Wikipedia, etc, etc, etc.
In other news (anecdote warning), I was talking to my high school teacher sister about this whole idea of free community college, and she felt fairly ambivalent about it and also advanced the idea that a focus on early childhood education might deliver the best results.
In other news (anecdote warning), I was talking to my high school teacher sister about this whole idea of free community college, and she felt fairly ambivalent about it and also advanced the idea that a focus on early childhood education might deliver the best results.
As a high school teacher, I would be curious to know how she feels about the idea of high school as a vocational/associates system rather than the current paradigm.
Essentially, any course taken after 11th grade should have the rigor and requirements to fulfill course requisites for an equivilantly named/numbered course that would apply toward an academic or vocational credential.
And then, obviously, put high schools in a position to grant that credential or facilitate transfer to a local community college where it could be obtained in less than a year.
Basically, I think that the Obama strategy could be implemented for little to no cost if we work to remove the redundant and superfluous courses being taught at high schools today.
In other news (anecdote warning), I was talking to my high school teacher sister about this whole idea of free community college, and she felt fairly ambivalent about it and also advanced the idea that a focus on early childhood education might deliver the best results.
The exra boost on early childhood seems to level off after a few years. I don't know if its because later years don't pick up the pace, or if its because they can only go as fast as the slowest kids, some of whom did not get the same early childhood education, or if kids brains just aren't ready for information until a certain point.
In other news (anecdote warning), I was talking to my high school teacher sister about this whole idea of free community college, and she felt fairly ambivalent about it and also advanced the idea that a focus on early childhood education might deliver the best results.As a high school teacher, I would be curious to know how she feels about the idea of high school as a vocational/associates system rather than the current paradigm.
I don't know, but I'll ask sometime.
Here's my take on school in general:
K - 8th grade, everyone taught same thing. In 8th grade you decide whether or not you want to go onto College.
If Yes, then you are sent to High School for 9 - 12th grade and begin College Prep and some College Courses toward the career and degree of your choosing.
If No, then you are sent to a Votech to learn a trade, have an apprenticeship, and learn life skills for 2 or 3 years. At the end of which you are ready to employed in the "real world".This would free up money so that Colleges would not have to be tuition based.
Would require a much larger societal shift though than just restructuring the education system. How many people have decided what they want to do in life at 9th grade? And how many of those people, even if they are not really interested in college, would get the parental/peer pressure to take the college option?
I feel like a lot of kids don't really get what college really is. Even decent students can flunk out when presented with the absent of parental oversight and being placed in charge of their own education.
I don't disagree with your proposal, just think it might be difficult to apply now
Here's my take on school in general:
K - 8th grade, everyone taught same thing. In 8th grade you decide whether or not you want to go onto College.
If Yes, then you are sent to High School for 9 - 12th grade and begin College Prep and some College Courses toward the career and degree of your choosing.
If No, then you are sent to a Votech to learn a trade, have an apprenticeship, and learn life skills for 2 or 3 years. At the end of which you are ready to employed in the "real world".This would free up money so that Colleges would not have to be tuition based.
Would require a much larger societal shift though than just restructuring the education system. How many people have decided what they want to do in life at 9th grade? And how many of those people, even if they are not really interested in college, would get the parental/peer pressure to take the college option?
I feel like a lot of kids don't really get what college really is. Even decent students can flunk out when presented with the absent of parental oversight and being placed in charge of their own education.
I don't disagree with your proposal, just think it might be difficult to apply now
Hell, I think the majority of college students change major.
IIRC the Prussian -> Imperial German educational system had a pretty strong divide between technical and university paths starting fairly young. I can't comment in any detail, I don't even remember where I read that, but it might be a case study for how it would work.
On the other hand, the economy has changed a lot since those days, and I'm not sure whether the technical path would have mapped closely to the vocational classes of today or not.
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I'm 38 and I still don't know what I wanna be when I grow up.
Boston School Bus Union Wins Huge Victory
Huzzah!
Forward to communism!
EDIT: Only available to Facebook users?!? Wtf?!? [Goes to gooogle]
[Comes back]
Well, Red Steve got off.
Huzzah!!
Facebooks evil is taking away from my beloved goblin communists victory -more proof of Zuckerbergs perfidity!
Here's my argument: School sucks!
Here's my argument: School sucks!
Does it suck worse than no school?
Went to a birthday party for a UFT member with a buncha educators last night. Was disappointed to discover that it was less Teacher Snow Day, more Frat Kid Binge Drinking.
There's a difference?
Not as much "Fifty Shades sex."
Anyway, article La Principessa was sharing on Facebook: