Running a GMNPC


Advice


Well, I'm fairly new at GMing and I'd like to take 3 of my friends through the Rise of the Runelords campaign. Starting from 1st level.

The Party:
So far we have an Elf Druid; not an optimal race, but awesome enough stats that it shouldn't matter; something like 18 Wis, 17 Str, 15 Con, 14 Dex... She has a Tyrannosaurus animal companion. No archetype. Also there will be a Half-Elf Bard and a Dwarf Cleric. The bard should have 8 or 10 Int. (Part of her concept; not being the sharpest tool in the shed.) Don't know much else about them, but more high stats to be sure, such that I'm considering switching to a 25 point buy, but that's another story. They're fairly new to Pathfinder campaigns, however, they're comfortable with me helping them optimize. They describe their character, I help optimize within the character concept.

So with a campaign designed for 4, I'm thinking of adding my own character. Two questions:

A) What would complement a Druid, a Cleric, and a Bard? Does Rise of the Runelords change your calculation?

B) What advice would you give to a GM running such a character?

My first inclination was to pick a Wizard or perhaps a Summoner. However, I fear these would draw far too much attention. I could try focusing on less flashy spells and buffing, but I'm not sure I should trust myself with that. Perhaps something like a Fighter would be better. What would you do?

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

They've got casting down, so I agree with your idea of a fighter (or other martial character). They could benefit from a hardy/reliable front liner. It also makes running the character less work for you. Alternatively, if one of them is experienced enough, you could have them run the character in combats.


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My advice is not to run a GMPC at all. It is a valuable skill to learn how to compensate for non-traditional party size and composition. Also, GMPCs carry with them a few well-known traps for novice GMs. Even if you do not go overboard with a Mary-sue super-NPC stealing all the glory, you are still diverting your own attention from playing NPCs well. It also makes GM-time vs player-time during the round even more lopsided!

If they really want to fill a gap, let them hire an NPC. He can be a jerk, or less competent than the players, anything that keeps him from overshadowing PCs. Let them shop around for different hirelings like in a computer game. Make them all NPCs, not your PCs.

The cons far outweigh the pros. Roll with three PCs, and think through your encounters ahead of time. Don't ignore CR, but don't rely on it implicitly either. Treat the whole campaign with the love that players treat their single PC. If you really must have a single persona to call your own, make it the main villain. That is the secret of a great GM.


What sort of advice are you looking for?

One of my favorite things to do when running a game is to ask leading questions that require multiple word answers, which can work particularly well for a character like this. You ask the player something about whats happening/happened between them and the NPC, or another player and the NPC and why.

Why did he hesitate before saving the Druid?
Why is he always helpful to the Bard? (minor chores, pours his drink, best cut of meat, etc)
Why does he grind his teeth when the Cleric talks about religion?


Evil Lincoln wrote:

My advice is not to run a GMPC at all. It is a valuable skill to learn how to compensate for non-traditional party size and composition. Also, GMPCs carry with them a few well-known traps for novice GMs. Even if you do not go overboard with a Mary-sue super-NPC stealing all the glory, you are still diverting your own attention from playing NPCs well. It also makes GM-time vs player-time during the round even more lopsided!

If they really want to fill a gap, let them hire an NPC. He can be a jerk, or less competent than the players, anything that keeps him from overshadowing PCs. Let them shop around for different hirelings like in a computer game. Make them all NPCs, not your PCs.

The cons far outweigh the pros. Roll with three PCs, and think through your encounters ahead of time. Don't ignore CR, but don't rely on it implicitly either. Treat the whole campaign with the love that players treat their single PC. If you really must have a single persona to call your own, make it the main villain. That is the secret of a great GM.

That might work; let my players choose an NPC, and then perhaps have them take turns running the NPC. I mentioned banning leadership, yet the possibility for getting NPCs nonetheless.

Oh, I was thinking more GMNPC than GMPC. Splitting hairs, perhaps. Either way, hireling sounds like a good plan. Maybe I'll have a few NPCs attending the festival and have the unnecessary ones die during the goblin raid and they can choose to hire the survivor whenever they'd like. *ponder ponder*

Grand Lodge

Go with a martial character, fighter or ranger. And and it's far preferable if one of the players would volounteer to run the character. Also, I think most AP's (like Jade Regent) actually provide party companions, (Jade Regent does) so you really might not have to do it at all.


LazarX wrote:
Go with a martial character, fighter or ranger. And and it's far preferable if one of the players would volounteer to run the character. Also, I think most AP's (like Jade Regent) actually provide party companions, (Jade Regent does) so you really might not have to do it at all.

I'll keep an eye out for that. I haven't read all the way through the adventure paths yet.


I'd actually argue it takes more skill to run a supporting character than a main character. Being able to remain useful while not overshadowing any other party member is as delicate a balance as you can get. In fact, I'd suggest not running one that starts out with the party and instead letting them make the choice to hire a character.

Being able to subtly lead them in this direction is another good skill to learn. You effectively want to give them enough information, phrased properly, so that they come up with something and think that it was their idea. Knowing your friends is an important part of this, so don't be surprised if it takes a while. You are the plot, after all. If you want input into what they do, you have to get them to want to do it!

If they're all first-time players, I'd suggest looking over the rules on CR and how to lower it, so that you can match the suggested level -1. Also keep in mind that despite appearances, the characters here don't have full BAB- They may have a lot of trouble in melee. It's your job to make sure they can figure out how to deal with it, whether through their own ingenuity or through finding or hiring a new party member to help out.

And I don't know if RotRL has werewolves in it, but they are NOT CR 2. It's a trap.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Nothing wrong with it, I have done it myself. The key as others have mentioned is making them useful will still secondary to the PC's. With that group i would say a fighter would fit best. You don't need and I would even recommend against optimizing them. Instead give them a fairly well balanced set of stats with a low int and chr so they won't be the face but allow you to from time to time drop hints with things the NPC says. I would have such a character focus on the ability to take damage instead of do damage. Basically let the NPC occupies the bad guys while the PC's do the killing.

Or as others have said just adjust things to make it work with 3 PC's and no melee types. Both are good skills to learn as a GM, so really you don't have a bad choice. Just choose the one you feel most comfortable with for now. You can always change your mind later and either put a GMNPC in or pull that one out.

Grand Lodge

One approach that I've seen in AP's that GM's should consider is that instead of the GMNPC who remains with the group on a consistent basis, have short-term companions of the party, such as the ranger who's guiding you through Darken Wood, the fey bard in the wood elf glade of Moonhaven, the swarthy rogue or thuggish fighter in the sewers of Waterdeep.

Shadow Lodge

I concur that you should probably try and avoid it. You can always walk a new character on to the set after you begin.

Now, if you DO wind up with such a character, be sure and kill it if you can. Loads of fun, mostly because the players don't expect it.


I'm running one right now in Kingmaker for a group that started off with only two players. They picked up a third later.

What's been working well for us was handing him over to one of the players to run in combat or whenever he needs to actually roll dice. Lets me focus on the monsters and gives the players a sense of agency in his actions. On the other hand, I cover his reactions in roleplaying encounters. It's worked out even better than we'd expected actually. Having a traveling NPC with the group on equal protagonist terms with the players has given them a lot of opportunity to play around character development and have those horseback conversations that happen all the time in novels and rarely in tabletop games.

The Exchange

At low levels, lacking a front-liner isn't too much of a problem. And as they increase in level, all three have means of bringing in 'outside talent' (the bard via charm spells, the druid via her improving animal companion and spontaneous summoning, and the cleric via lesser planar ally, which I suggest you point out to the cleric PC at around 5th level so he/she can start poring over feasible outsiders to enlist). Nevertheless, there are a couple of points early in that particular Adventure Path where they are in a good position to rescue various fighter-types who you could simply alter to be willing to travel with them in compensation for their rescue. There's a madman fairly early on who would make a particularly amusing follower - just arrange for him to be too deranged to be allowed out on his own, yet obedient to his beloved healers.

Druid: That was one nasty Predatory Gunk! - wait a minute, where's what's-his-name?
Bard: I thought you were watching him!
Cleric: Oh my specific God... he's rolling in it! NO! BAD DOG I mean BAD MAN!
Druid: I think I need to make a Fortitude save.


There are a LOT of NPCs in Rise of the Runelords, and plenty that could plausibly be used to accompany the party at different stages of the adventure.

So long as you tiptoe around the final encounter of Burnt Offerings (a certain Mr. Mal...) a three man party shouldnt run into much trouble. I ran one through it with no hired help and they did fine. I did, however, stat up the Sherrif, Ameiko and Shalelu, I could post them here if you'd like.

For some of the harder encounters, the AP suggests you give the PCs a hand. A lot of pucnhes are pulled in Burnt Offerings (provided you play certain notorious NPCs properly, such as Erylium) and the AP assumes the players have help in a number of places. For instance:

Big Runelords Spoilers:
Shalelu can accompany the PCs to thistletop to quell the Goblin threat/get a shot at Bruthazmus.
The Sherrif sends hired help with the PCs for the entire Misgivings segment. These double as potential redshirts to have dissapear in the manor, which is pretty awesome.
Shalelu returns for HMM, and the PCs also recruit the black arrows into their service. This is a great time for a player to take leadership.
The entire Sandpoint battle in FotSG has a number of NPCs on hand that you can have accompany the npcs, when they assault Jorgenfist, they can draw on four adventures worth of allies.
I haven't read any further, but you get the idea.

If you find your party to be too lacking, there are plenty of other opportunities to recruit the leveled NPCs. Forinstance, if the PCs were to go looking for Shalelu during Skinsaw Murders, they could recruit her help then. Ameiko could accompany the PCs to Magnimar during Skinsaw Murders, either witnessing her brothers trial or, if he's kicked the bucket, to clear up family matters with her relatives. Orik and Lyrie, if redeemed, fit in great as hirelings as well. Lyrie, while thoroughly nasty, wants to study thassilonian ruins. Orik is purely in it for the profit, and is a nice enough guy to help out when needed.

I wouldnt worry about inserting your own DMPC. There are plenty of NPCs in this adventure path that will fill the void, and the revolving roster stops things getting stale.


Personally, I would avoid the NPC idea. NPCs taken into combat gets cheesy quickly, with the players expecting the NPC to take life-threatening actions that they wouldn't. Better to avoid it as I also believe that there are more Cons than Pros.

Start them at level 2 instead, give them more gp as per Wealth by Level. If that still leaves them short, bump them to level 3 quickly, though without the extra gp.


OberonViking wrote:

Personally, I would avoid the NPC idea. NPCs taken into combat gets cheesy quickly, with the players expecting the NPC to take life-threatening actions that they wouldn't. Better to avoid it as I also believe that there are more Cons than Pros.

Start them at level 2 instead, give them more gp as per Wealth by Level. If that still leaves them short, bump them to level 3 quickly, though without the extra gp.

Who cares what the PCs expect, and why is it an assumption that the GM will run them like that? There are NPCs written into the path, along the way, they'll have plenty of opportunities to fight by their side. Would the bartender march into the giant's fortress? Hell no. Would the giant-hunting rangers? Well... probably.

Besides, as we've recently learned in another game after two of us took leadership, having NPCs defer to your authority feels pretty damned awesome. Having NPCs ignore your orders because of their characterisation or your s~*@ty leadership? Even cooler. Just play em as you would any NPC. Just dont play them as a robot or a vending machine and you're golden.

Really, I ran a group of three on an incredibly stingy 15 point buy up to midway into Skinsaw Murders. If there's a problem, it happens at the higher levels. Between the ranger and the inquisitor (and the baggage) my group have been steamrolling through the encounters.

Spoiler:
Goblins really arent so terrifying, and as written, the ghouls wouldnt coup-de-grace as they want their prey to rise as ghouls. Your mileage may vary on the other baddies.

I'd also like to point out that NPCs built on the actual NPC rules are... Really not terribly powerful. I'm trying to build a barbarian cohort as we speak, and the low ability array and dismal starting wealth are really not too inspiring. Even for a barbarian.

Just my two cents.

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