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Apologies if this is a discussion that's already been had, but I couldn't find anything while searching for it.
I'm curious why the sorcerer gets their bonus Bloodline Spell added to their spells known only (at least) one level after they are able to cast spells of the appropriate level. I suppose it makes a sort of sense; starting at 4th level, the sorcerer alternates levels between learning one spell of a higher spell level than they knew before and learning two spells without increasing their highest spell level. To do the reverse (for example, to grant the 2nd level Bloodline Spell to 4th level sorcerers in addition to learning a new spell of their choice, and then only granting one additional 2nd level spell known at the 5th sorcerer level) would, ostensibly, be front-loading the sorcerer's spells and potentially leaving the odd levels feeling a little bare in terms of class features.
Then again, it seems a little silly for some bloodlines to gain their thematic spells "late." For instance, someone wanting to make a blast-y sorcerer with the Elemental Bloodline would, at least by RAW(?), have to wait to take burning hands until third level if they didn't want to be short a spell known. Certainly a solution is to simply allow a trade-in in a home game, but not everyone is so loose with the rules, and that doesn't do much good for those who play in PFS.
Again, mostly I'm just curious about why the sorcerer's spells, including the Bloodline Spells, are structured the way they are.
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Again, mostly I'm just curious about why the sorcerer's spells, including the Bloodline Spells, are structured the way they are.
Poor design.
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My guess is that in the transition from 3.5, they wanted to beef up the sorcerer a bit and give it some flavor, so they added the bloodlines. They were a little concerned about power creep, and decided to delay the bloodline spells one level.
I've seen developers claim that if they did it over again it would be more like the oracle's revelation spells.
I've frequently done a houserule that bumps the sorcerors' bloodline spells forward by one level; this prevents the nearly-dead level at level 2, and makes sure that they have more than one spell of each level to cast when they get that spell. This also makes crossblooded sorcs a little less crippled.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32
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I've frequently done a houserule that bumps the sorcerors' bloodline spells forward by one level; this prevents the nearly-dead level at level 2, and makes sure that they have more than one spell of each level to cast when they get that spell. This also makes crossblooded sorcs a little less crippled.
Does this make the levels when they would typically get those bonus spells known feel more like "dead" levels? They're never truly dead, of course, since they're all odd levels that get an additional spell known and a feat.
Is this a change that you implemented after experience with the RAW progression, or changed without any testing? Not to say that either is "right," especially for houserules, I'm just curious.
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RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Even in 3.x I never felt that the odd levels on a sorcerer were "dead" levels. For at least the first several levels, here is you sorcerer spells known progression:
Even level: new spell level, one spell known plus a cantrip.
Odd level: a spell known at every level you can already cast.
You actually gain a lot more versatility at odd levels.
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An additional spell known is more than enough to make a level feel like it's not dead. An additional cantrip, IMO, isn't. Level 2 is the only level that I am really complaining about here.
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Oracle mystery spells come at even levels, not odd.
Yeah, I house rule it to be the same as oracles in my games - and I house-rule both classes further to let them get their first level bonus spell at level 1. (So the bonus spells come at 1,4,6,8 etc.)
What actually bothers me about it is less that there's a power level issue - it isn't overpowered or underpowered either way, really - and more that it's a drag on the bloodlines thematically. What kind of fire sorcerer doesn't get burning hands right away? It's silly that you have to wait until 3rd level before your sorcerer theme starts to feel like a major component of the character.
If you feel like this house rule makes level dips too attractive or something you can always just delay one of their other spells known to level 2.
One thing we did for Sorcerer into Dragon Disciple (very non-optimized choice) is allow the Bloodline spells to be received with bloodline progression from DD.
Doesn't mean you can cast it earlier, because you still need the ability to cast those level spells, but it makes up (a little) for losing 1-3 levels of spell casting progression & puts the higher level bloodline spells as accessible when you get that level of spellcasting.
Huh, guess you're right. It is RAW for DD progression. Always thought it was a liberal interpretation of bloodline progression, but reading it, it's clear it's a core part of bloodline powers.