Working Out Damage


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Hey guys,

A little confused on working out damage... (First time trying to do it).

Level 9 straight fighter

+5 weapon

str 22
dex 12
con 18
int 12
wis 8
cha 10

Bab 9

I've got power attack (-1 attack +2 Damage
Vital strike
Weapon focus +1 Attack roll
Weapon focus greater +1 Attack roll

I've got damage as:

Without Power Attack
25/20 + D10+15

With Power Attack
23/18 + D10+19

Does that seem right to anybody?


Are you using a one handed or two handed weapon? That matters because a two handed weapon will get 1.5 times strength for damage as well as a 3:1 Power Attack ratio. Note that you can choose to two hand a one handed weapon for the increased damage.

Attack bonuses:
BAB 9
Weapon 5
Weapon Training 2
Weapon Foci 2
Strength 6
(Power Attack -3; it increases at BAB 4 and 8)
Total: +24/+19, or 21/16 with Power Attack. Unless I'm missing something you have 1 more to hit then you should.

Damage:
Strength 6 (+3 two handing)
Weapon 5
Weapon Training 2
Power Attack 6 (+3 two handing)
Total(s):
1. One handing, no Power Attack = +13
2. One handing, Power Attack = +19
3. Two handing, no PA = +16
4. Two handing, PA = +25

We seem to have a bit of inconsistencies here; do you have other modifiers than the ones I mentioned?


What do you mean I can choose to two hand a one handed weapon? I wasn't aware I could do that?

I'm not entirely sure...

I'll link my character sheet.

It's a dropbox link, so I hope nobody minds.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mkzh1nihanewbm0/Human-Fighter%20Level%209.pdf?dl= 0


Rules for weapon categories:

Light: A light weapon is used in one hand. It is easier to use in one's off hand than a one-handed weapon is, and can be used while grappling (see Combat). Add the wielder's Strength modifier to damage rolls for melee attacks with a light weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or half the wielder's Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. Using two hands to wield a light weapon gives no advantage on damage; the Strength bonus applies as though the weapon were held in the wielder's primary hand only. An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon.

One-Handed: A one-handed weapon can be used in either the primary hand or the off hand. Add the wielder's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with a one-handed weapon if it's used in the primary hand, or 1/2 his Strength bonus if it's used in the off hand. If a one-handed weapon is wielded with two hands during melee combat, add 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls.

Two-Handed: Two hands are required to use a two-handed melee weapon effectively. Apply 1-1/2 times the character's Strength bonus to damage rolls for melee attacks with such a weapon

That should clarify what I mean about two handing and such. As you are using a shield that means you can only one hand your weapon. Now looking at your sheet we have some modifications to make.

Attack rolls; when using a tower shield you take a -2 penalty to attack rolls. You may want to reconsider that choice and go for a heavy shield instead.
1. No power attack = +22/+17
2. With power attack = +19/+14

Damage with Weapon Specialization added in:
1. One handing, no Power Attack = +15
2. One handing, Power Attack = +21

These don't apply to you as you are not two handing:
3. Two handing, no PA = +18
4. Two handing, PA = +27


I also have Tower Shield Proficiency (Because I'm a fighter it's automatic).

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/tower-shield-proficiency-combat- --final

Which means I don't have the -2 on attack rolls, correct?

BTW, thanks for the math! :)


Glad to help! Take a look at the description for a tower shield.

"When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield's encumbrance."

That happens even if you are proficient. It just means that it would be even worse if you weren't.


chaoseffect wrote:

Glad to help! Take a look at the description for a tower shield.

"When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield's encumbrance."

That happens even if you are proficient. It just means that it would be even worse if you weren't.

Yeah, but Tower Shield Proficiency says:

Benefit: When you use a tower shield, the shield's armor check penalty only applies to Strength and Dexterity-based skills.

While the normal is: Normal: A character using a shield with which he is not proficient takes the shield's armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all skill checks that involve moving, including Ride.

So the benefit in taking the feat removes the -2 to attack rolls (which is the only minus mentioned to attack rolls).


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MadE wrote:

Yeah, but Tower Shield Proficiency says:

Benefit: When you use a tower shield, the shield's armor check penalty only applies to Strength and Dexterity-based skills.

While the normal is: Normal: A character using a shield with which he is not proficient takes the shield's armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all skill checks that involve moving, including Ride.

So the benefit in taking the feat removes the -2 to attack rolls (which is the only minus mentioned to attack rolls).

That is the wording for all of the armor proficiency feats. To understand what that means you need to look at the penalties for non-proficiency:

"Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he is not proficient takes the armor's (and/or shield's) armor check penalty on attack rolls as well as on all Dex- and Str-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for non-proficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for shields."

So for instance a tower shield has an armor check penalty of -10. That means if you weren't proficient with one you would take that penalty on attack rolls as well as certain skill checks, in addition to the -2 specified in the tower shield description. Tower shields are a bit of an oddity like that and it is why most people don't bother with them.


PRD wrote:

Shield, Tower: This massive wooden shield is nearly as tall as you are. In most situations, it provides the indicated shield bonus to your AC. As a standard action, however, you can use a tower shield to grant you total cover until the beginning of your next turn. When using a tower shield in this way, you must choose one edge of your space. That edge is treated as a solid wall for attacks targeting you only. You gain total cover for attacks that pass through this edge and no cover for attacks that do not pass through this edge (see Combat). The shield does not, however, provide cover against targeted spells; a spellcaster can cast a spell on you by targeting the shield you are holding. You cannot bash with a tower shield, nor can you use your shield hand for anything else.

When employing a tower shield in combat, you take a –2 penalty on attack rolls because of the shield's encumbrance.

A tower shield has an ACP of -10. If the penalty to attack was from nonproficiency then the penalty would be a -10, not a -2.

With the tower shield you take the -2 because of how big it is.

That benefit section you quoted only references the ACP penalty. It does nothing to save you from the penalty due to the shield's size which is where the -2 is form.

Here is the benefit section again.

Quote:
Benefit: When you use a tower shield, the shield's armor check penalty only applies to Strength and Dexterity-based skills

As you can see the benefit does not say "the only penalties that count are from the ACP and they are for strength and dex based checks".

It is saying that any penalties that are from the ACP only apply to strength and dex based checked.

Those are two very different statements.


So what if I used the Heavy Wooden/Metal shield?

It still has a Minus 2...

I'm really confused...


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MadE wrote:

So what if I used the Heavy Wooden/Metal shield?

It still has a Minus 2...

I'm really confused...

The listed armor check penalty for the heavy shield won't give you a -2 to attack rolls because you are proficient. The -2 we were talking about with the tower shield is a "special feature" of the item. It has nothing to do with armor check penalty or proficiency. It is its own special thing. It's just meant to make you pay a price for getting a base +4 shield bonus.


MadE wrote:

So what if I used the Heavy Wooden/Metal shield?

It still has a Minus 2...

I'm really confused...

The tower shield applies that -2 because it has it as a special rule that has nothing to do with ACP, and honestly they are not worth the trouble to have.

If you have a bucker, light shield, or heavy shield you would not take a penalty as long as you were proficient with shields.


Yeah, I'm proficient with all shields... I'm thinking I'll go with a Heavy Metal Shield... I'm also looking at crafting shields/Armour, so that may come in use :D

Thanks for clearing it up though! And you're right, more hassle than it's worth! :D

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