Tiny creature 5ft stepping into medium creature's space

[Torivor]

I'm running a Mummy's Mask campaign and 3 size tiny warrior dolls have just come to life to fend off the PC's from the grave goods. They begin the round adjacent to one of the PC's on a table, and on their turn (before said PC so she is flat-footed) leap up and attempt to attack her.

They have two slam attacks each, and while the PC is definitely in range of a move action -> standard attack, I figured that since they started adjacent and the dolls only need to 5ft step into the PC's space and can make a full attack. On the other hand, other creature's spaces are considered rough terrain, and normally not 5ft step-able into. Does that hold true for creatures entering the space of something at least 2 size categories larger than them?

If it does, a follow up question would be do tiny creatures require a full 10ft running start in order to charge?

[Pizza Lord]

Torivor wrote:

Does that hold true for creatures entering the space of something at least 2 size categories larger than them?

Movement, Position, and Distance wrote:

Very Small Creature

A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.

Big and Little Creatures in Combat wrote:

Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures

Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2½ feet across, so four can fit into a single square. Twenty-five Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can’t reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent’s square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can’t flank an enemy.

Normally you have to be three or more sizes smaller or larger than a creature to share the space, but that rule is for creatures that take up at least one full square. For tiny and smaller creatures, the rules above should apply. This means up to four of your warrior dolls could be in the same square as one medium or smaller creature. According to the wording, moving into the space provokes an Attack of Opportunity. It's your GM's call whether the 5-foot step is meant to negate this, though by the wording, I don't think it does. (of course, being flat-footed, this is a moot point unless the creature whose space they are entering has Combat Reflexes, which lets them take AoOs while flat-footed).

Torivor wrote:

On the other hand, other creature's spaces are considered rough terrain, and normally not 5ft step-able into.

I don't believe this is stated anywhere. Certainly an occupied space will block charging, but that doesn't make it difficult terrain. Nor does moving into a creature's space cost more movement. For instance, you can move through your ally's square as part of your movement and it costs no more than any other square of its kind. You just can't end you movement there. The same thing with 5-foot step; I see nothing saying you can't. The main reason you don't 5-foot step into a creature's space is that you can't take any more movement after a 5-foot step and your turn would end in the illegal space and you would move back to your closest legal space (typically this will be where you started.

[Ellias Aubec]

Even if the enemies square counted as difficult terrain, that only counts for when you move out of the square, not into it. But I personally believe that the 5' step ignores that AoO.

[ShieldLawrence]

Paralyzed creatures count as two squares of movement and that’s it. Otherwise it’s normal movement through a creature’s square.

Tiny creatures do provoke even with a 5’ step into another creature’s square. If they use a move action into another creature’s square, it only provokes once total.

FAQ

[zza ni]

Ellias Aubec wrote:

Even if the enemies square counted as difficult terrain, that only counts for when you move out of the square, not into it. But I personally believe that the 5' step ignores that AoO.

if im not mistaken, that goes the other way around. the only space you worry when counting steps is where your going into not what you are leaving. so stepping from a difficult terrain into normal one will count as one 5 ft movement, but from normal into a difficult will count as two.

as apposed to provoking which you normally provoke for leaving a threatened space not entering one.

[Volkard Abendroth]

ShieldLawrence wrote:

Paralyzed creatures count as two squares of movement and that’s it. Otherwise it’s normal movement through a creature’s square.

Tiny creatures do provoke even with a 5’ step into another creature’s square. If they use a move action into another creature’s square, it only provokes once total.

FAQ

Take 5 foot step wrote:

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity.

Tiny creatures moving into another creatures square provoke, unless they take a 5' step, which never provokes.

If this is a surprise round, and it sounds like it should be, the dolls should only have a standard action available to them. They should not be able to full attack even with a 5' step.

[Warped Savant]

Volkard Abendroth wrote:

ShieldLawrence wrote:

Paralyzed creatures count as two squares of movement and that’s it. Otherwise it’s normal movement through a creature’s square.

Tiny creatures do provoke even with a 5’ step into another creature’s square. If they use a move action into another creature’s square, it only provokes once total.

FAQ

Take 5 foot step wrote:

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity.

Tiny creatures moving into another creatures square provoke, unless they take a 5' step, which never provokes.

If this is a surprise round, and it sounds like it should be, the dolls should only have a standard action available to them. They should not be able to full attack even with a 5' step.

Did you not bother to look at the FAQ that ShieldLawrence linked to?

FAQ wrote:

Tiny and smaller creatures: In the section on Tiny and smaller creatures, it says that entering a creature’s space provokes an attack of opportunity, but typically 5-foot steps don’t provoke an attack of opportunity. If a Tiny or smaller creature took a 5-foot step into a creature’s space, would it provoke an attack of opportunity?

Yes. Even with a 5-foot step, a Tiny or smaller creature entering a creature’s space provokes an attack of opportunity (unless it is using a more specific ability to avoid the attack of opportunity such as the Monkey Shine feat). This doesn’t mean that a Tiny or smaller creature entering a creature’s space and moving out of a threatened square with a move action provokes two attacks of opportunity from that creature, for the same reason that moving out of multiple of a creature’s threatened squares in the same move action doesn’t provoke two attacks of opportunity.

[blahpers]

ShieldLawrence wrote:

Paralyzed creatures count as two squares of movement and that’s it. Otherwise it’s normal movement through a creature’s square.

Tiny creatures do provoke even with a 5’ step into another creature’s square. If they use a move action into another creature’s square, it only provokes once total.

FAQ

Good find! Up until now I would have ruled the other way.

[Torivor]

Thanks you guys, this was super helpful. One follow up question though: when a an AoO is provoked by moving into another creature's square, does it provoke only from that creature or from any creature around that can hit it?

[zza ni]

i thought that it would only be from that specific creature. but it seem to imply that like any other provocation of Aoo, anyone who threat the target get to use an Aoo on it.
-Aoo provocation is for lowering your guard doing specific things, casting, getting up, moving out of threatened area AND going into other creature space. it doesn't specify only that creature since lowering one's guard would apply to anyone who threat it.