CEO
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New Blog from Ryan is available on the Goblinworks website!
-Lisa
Goblin Squad Member
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New Blog from Ryan is available on the Goblinworks website!
-Lisa
Why does it say it is by "Jen" :D
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CEO
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Why does it say it is by "Jen" :DNew Blog from Ryan is available on the Goblinworks website!
-Lisa
Because this was Ryan's day off. And Jen posted it for him.
Lisa
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As you are looking at shrines it may be worth considering limiting resurrection to the same terrain level you die on.
There are two reasons for this:
1) climbing a pass and traveling 5 hexes only to die and end up at the bottom again and have to do it all over kinda sux.
2) More importantly - if you want to get UP a level and the pass is too far away, or potentially with WoT is being camped, it is currently just a matter of knowing the correct place to remove your gear and suicide and you get transported to a shrine at the top.
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I assume husks being implemented also means threading being implemented?
I'm also hoping that, with the implementation of husks, there will be some means of locating your husk? And hopefully the double durability hit from resurrecting in the next hex will be fixed.
For the time being, anything equipped is considered threaded. Later, there will be a more complex system.
When you respawn, there is a pin only visible to you on the minimap directing you to your husk. Or at least where it was when you died as someone could have harvested it in your absence.
Lisa
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Thanks for chiming in, Lisa.
Some worries:
Can we have Rep-loss back to being severely crippling for an unwarranted kill(i.e. non tower-hex related)after husk-looting goes in? I'll be sure to take the calculated risk of avoiding Tower Hexes whenever I am gathering, but would like some "protection" outside of those.
Since killing another player just became so much more yummy, I can see a change in behavior, never mind the few hours you have to let your char stand idling somewhere to get the lost rep back.
Also, "3rd character, 1000XP Bow-using roaming ganksquads and duo's". 2 naked players that have invested a few hundred of XP into Bows can kill pretty much any single player without much hassle.
I am sure these will have ways to unload the loot they take. And I am *very* sure that any idlers getting their rep back do not give a hoot about being sent to a shrine themselves when AFK(after they emptied out to their Alt). Not that the "1000xp" characters even need their rep, after their first traning.
Personally, I think way too many features are still missing for this feature husk-looting to go in. I am pretty sure I am deeply upsetting a few folks here that are chomping at their bits, but that's fine.
Can we already see the Company-name of a player when we target him? Which settlement he belongs to?
Players can still be without a single affiliation, when is the feature going in that they either belong to a PC settlement or an NPC settlement?
Can refiners already use resources directly from the bank when they are crafting something at a station? When will finished products go directly to bank instead of Inventory? It's rather easy to stealth into a settlement, even with zero points in stealth.
Important question: can players loot a husk while stealthed(under the nose of townguards)? Since we can harvest while stealthed.
I am afraid that this is a bit of a too soon reaction in order to show the world that this is indeed a real PvP game.
Anyway, some tips: after queuing up a craftjob, make sure you run your crafter back to the bank, so that when you log in next time, you immediately can bank the finished goods.
Make sure you only take the resources with you to the crafting station, that you are going to use: leave the rest in the bank.
Do not go idling with your crafters in town, filled with resources.
NPC startertowns may become magnets for players looking for a quick loot, since they are usually filled with bright-eyed red-shirts learning the ropes and carrying their goods with them. On the other hand, because there are always some players there, a killer may get some opposition. So as long as you do not have a PC-town that is active, your best bet may still be an NPC town.
From your friendly neighbourhood carebear. ;)
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And as you only loot things that is unequipped a raider risk very little, just some duration hit.
In the battlefield the husks will leave very little worth looting as there isn't any reason to carry more stuff than you cam equip...
In other word hunting gatherers are the only thing to do from loot gain POV.
In the war of towers the husks wont change much...
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@Lisa, @Ryan,
I'll great news, thank you for the update. I won't bring up the auction house anymore till the improvements are on the test server for review. :D
Can we have Rep-loss back to being severely crippling for an unwarranted kill...
Tyncale, the current problem with the rep system, exacerbated if made more severe penalties again, is that you can incur rep loss from defending your own town. That could quickly snowball into being denied intro into your own town if you kill too many attackers (that didn't attack you first).
The side effect of increased penalties will be people all standing around looking at each waiting for the other to take the first shot, or worse doing nothing at all.
The good news is, you can always just run away from raiders (hard to catch people seriously trying to run away) or gather with a group.
If you slot a heal spell or minor cure, and a speed spell to your secondary gear set, you can get away from just about any 1v1 without much difficulty.
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Doc, good points. This is why I think more sophisticated systems need to be in before such a game changer as husk-looting goes in.
I am definately heeding your "run" advice though. :) My precautions in a list for my Main who is an Archer/Cleric:
- Archer armor feat: Speed +2 (not working yet, I think but will be).
- Travel Domain: Speed +5, also not working, and currently on the same channel, but supposed to get its own channel to stack with armor feat.
- Agile Feet Orison slotted: 2 rounds of Quickened
- Minor Cure slotted: spamming this on the run is indeed a life-saver and even a little overpowered...
- Bulwark (Freedom) and Combat Expertise slotted as Utilities, against crowd control and extra defense (no idea if this works)
- Augment expendable slotted; I was lucky to loot this level 2 Fighter (Trophy Charm) Selfheal of 350 points. Can be interrupted though and does not always fire when running (have to test more).
- Cure Potion +1 slotted in Consumable slot.
- Perception at 80(elf) so sneaking up on me stealthed while I am harvesting a node is a bit more difficult.
- While gathering, already turn away from the node while doing the animation, so you can immediately start b-lining away from the node if you see a player appear on your minimap.
Sometimes I wonder if replacing my Medium armor with Heavy Armor isn't much more effective to make a safe getaway, but maybe not. Being alert is probably the most important. :)
As to your second advice, go in a group, I am of the firm belief that if the game really goes in that direction, then a certain persons doom scenario will come true, and the game will die.
In all my time that I have been playing in alpha and since EE, whenever I run across the country, I mostly have seen people running solo. This is not because this is a solo game or because the game is too empty still. It is simply because people like to do stuff by themselves now and then, especially Travel, and having to shout in town, or wait for a partner just to leave that town, is a terrible mistake.
Big fat caravan going out of town? Sure, they need guards/groups. Defending a PoI, Sieging, protecting a gusher, retaliations: they need groups. But regular non-gusher harvesting, *and* travel need to be able to be done solo, with a calculated risk that does not drive people away.
So *With* calculation, *with* knowledge of the world and the political landscape and with being smart and not lumbering around Encumbered.
But if I have to wait untill someone decides to go in my direction too so that I can finally leave town, because if not then I'm on a suicide run then no.
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If you only lose what you have in your inventory, what is the real issue here? It is in fact a PVP game built on the concept that there will be risks and rewards.
Thus far, throughout all of alpha and now two (going on three) weeks of EE, you have had nothing but reward and no risk.
Complaints about traveling solo, are likely falling on deaf ears. Or perhaps Nihimon will pull out the quotes of the dev responses to traveling solo in PFO... I will paraphrase from memory... "You are going to die, and die a lot", mixed with a good amount of laughter.
Although I can not read the Blog from work at this time, I can gather from the reaction, it's time for everyone to put their "big boy" pants on.
Players will have to be more proactive for their own safety. The game systems were never going to be enough to protect them from the truly dedicated predators.
You are not safe
Only carry what you can afford to lose
It is only Coin / It is only about the coin
(Coin can be substituted for any material wealth item).
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You are not safe (there are bandits out there!)
Only carry what you can afford to lose (stock replacements, don't use best gear constantly)
It is only coin ( or your time) / It is only about the coin ( or coal more accurately)
That is what a more expanded version of Bluddwolfs mantra would look like I think. :)
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You are not safe
Only carry what you can afford to lose
It is only Coin / It is only about the coin(Coin can be substituted for any material wealth item).
SEcurity is something that Player settlements can offer new, and other non-combat, members. It would be in their best interest to provide "safe" areas for their members to harvest resources and even farm lower level mobs for training (and some loot)
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That is what a more expanded version of Bluddwolfs mantra would look like I think. :)
You are not safe (there are bandits out there!)
Only carry what you can afford to lose (stock replacements, don't use best gear constantly)
It is only coin ( or your time) / It is only about the coin ( or coal more accurately)
yes, and to further expand..
When I say "It is only about the coin", that means "Nothing Personal" or "It's Just Business".
I am hopeful that the introduction of player looting will encourage more people to either start their EE accounts or buy into the game. The avid PVP crowd now has something tangible to kill for... LOOT!!
Not really an argument (more philosophical pining) of any sort but I have to point out the irony of the following statements:
Accepted True Statement:
"It is in fact a PVP game built on the concept that there will be risks and rewards."
Followed by advice to not take any risks:
"Only carry what you can afford to lose"
If you can afford to lose something then where is the risk?
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Thannon it's pulled from EvE where you have people who sometimes spend all their ISK buying a shiny nice new ship they just trained for... and get blown to hell b/c they don't know how to use it yet. They are then stuck with only the starter ship you get when you have nothing. Months into the game that is a PITA to recover from. Thus don't carry all your best stuff and have a reserve is what it basically means.
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Or perhaps Nihimon will pull out the quotes of the dev responses to traveling solo in PFO... I will paraphrase from memory... "You are going to die, and die a lot", mixed with a good amount of laughter.
Sure :)
KS2 Update 7 - Can I play the game Solo?
Lee Hammock: Hi, I'm Lee Hammock. I'm the Lead Game Designer at Goblinworks.
Stephen Cheney: And I'm Stephen Cheney. I'm also a Game Designer at Goblinworks.
Can I play the game Solo
LH: [laughing] That is a fantastic - I love that question.
SC: [laughing] You shouldn't do that, you're going to die.
Yes, you're going to die at the hands of other players. And, if the devs have done a good job, that death will be meaningful both to you and your attacker. You'll lose something that was important enough for you to risk dying to get.
The trick is to keep the game from devolving into "the kind of unsanctioned PvP nightmare that Darkfall struggled with" (Tork Shaw) or being "overwhelmed by PvP" (Ryan Dancey).
It's an interesting balancing act, as noted by Ryan at the link. The folks who never saw anything wrong with games like Darkfall might feel like the PvP is too constrained. The folks who would never have considered playing a game like Darkfall might feel like the PvP is too harsh. I'm convinced there's a Goldilocks Zone where there's enough "unsanctioned" PvP to make transporting goods long distances quite risky, where there's a tremendous amount of "sanctioned" PvP, but where folks who want to RP in a tavern don't have to constantly worry that they'll be killed just crossing the street.
When I say "It is only about the coin", that means "Nothing Personal" or "It's Just Business".
Careful :D
That is a trademarked slogan of, Allegiant Gemstone Company. heheh
(you now owe us 5 copper for licensing rights)
Lol, j/k
(But seriously, 5 copper.)
Taken out of content It does sound ironic, taken as part of the larger conversation of risk management, PFO current and future game system and looting/threading; it makes sense.If you can afford to lose something then where is the risk?
Granted. Theoretically there is a point where you have no choice and any additional setbacks will push you into risk territory, but even in the bigger conversation it seems an interesting thought and somewhat ironic advice.
@Jakaal I'm aware and have played EVE enough to follow the mantra myself, but to me it's still a bit of a weird statement to give as general advice since it implies some things that are not really true or accurate in my opinion.
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Come on guys, read my disclaimers. I expect to lose stuff. I am not asking for riskfree traveling, I am asking for being able to travel with a calculated risk that is workable. It is all about the numbers.
There is a cutoff point for everyone, where stuff stops being ok.
There's two extremes in between which there needs to be balance.
One extreme is the fool, who does not educate himself about the political landscape, about ongoing wars, about which territory he is entering, who is lumbering around encumbered, and thinks he should still be able to do this without ever getting killed.
The other extreme is the guy who is knowledgable, knows the ins and out of the game and *still* has to partner up every single time that he wants to go from one place to another else he knows he is going to have little chance of making it alive. The murdersim.
There is a huge grey area there. The game systems that we hopefully get, that include warning systems (text that appears when entering a hex with specific laws), seeing a persons affiliation, Voting systems for settlements so that lousy leaders can be called out, possibilities for retaliation, Feuds, Wars, Diplomacy, Guard posts along the Main Roads (havent heard much about those lately), SAD, Factions: all of these should give more color to this grey area so that people can take calculated risks, and wiser decisions, but more importantly, these systems will create feedback loops that should curb behavior that leads to the extreme where everything is unsafe.
Right now, I can't even check the Company that someone belongs too.
Trust me, I expect to lose stuff. I am also preparing myself, see above list. All my crafters already have all their stuff in the bank. I just hope to see this game come to fruition, and a sure way to never let that happen is to make it so that you *always* require a buddy or a group to do something.
It is too hard for characters to claim territoriality with the current rep mechanics. Determined poachers can come back over and over again until you can't do anything.
While I *LOVE* PvP, Midnight has more points in gathering than combat skills, so I'm actually arguing against my own character ROLE when I tell you it is too easy to poach resources, and if you make rep loss more severe to accompany husks you'll be right back to where we are now.
Which I'm sure is what many gatherers want... unfettered access to EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE. But that is not what is going to generate #PFOcontent and make this a compelling sandbox.
And TRADERS AND CARAVANERS should be agreeing with me.
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It is too hard for characters to claim territoriality with the current rep mechanics. Determined poachers can come back over and over again until you can't do anything.
While I *LOVE* PvP, Midnight has more points in gathering than combat skills, so I'm actually arguing against my own character ROLE when I tell you it is too easy to poach resources, and if you make rep loss more severe to accompany husks you'll be right back to where we are now.
Player Looting will have a profound impact on gathering in other folks' territory. Spending an hour or two filling up your bags only to lose all of it when you get killed isn't the kind of thing many folks are going to want to do. Sure, there'll be some adventurous soles who sneak behind enemy lines to get a load of Copper Ore. But the reality is that killing Poachers will be a lot more lucrative as soon as Player Looting in; you'll just need to manage your Reputation well enough to be able to deal with them.
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Thanks for chiming in, Lisa.
Some worries:
Can we have Rep-loss back to being severely crippling for an unwarranted kill(i.e. non tower-hex related)after husk-looting goes in? I'll be sure to take the calculated risk of avoiding Tower Hexes whenever I am gathering, but would like some "protection" outside of those.
Since killing another player just became so much more yummy, I can see a change in behavior, never mind the few hours you have to let your char stand idling somewhere to get the lost rep back.
Also, "3rd character, 1000XP Bow-using roaming ganksquads and duo's". 2 naked players that have invested a few hundred of XP into Bows can kill pretty much any single player without much hassle.
I am sure these will have ways to unload the loot they take. And I am *very* sure that any idlers getting their rep back do not give a hoot about being sent to a shrine themselves when AFK(after they emptied out to their Alt). Not that the "1000xp" characters even need their rep, after their first traning.
Personally, I think way too many features are still missing for this feature husk-looting to go in. I am pretty sure I am deeply upsetting a few folks here that are chomping at their bits, but that's fine.
Can we already see the Company-name of a player when we target him? Which settlement he belongs to?
Players can still be without a single affiliation, when is the feature going in that they either belong to a PC settlement or an NPC settlement?Can refiners already use resources directly from the bank when they are crafting something at a station? When will finished products go directly to bank instead of Inventory? It's rather easy to stealth into a settlement, even with zero points in stealth.
Important question: can players loot a husk while stealthed(under the nose of townguards)? Since we can harvest while stealthed.
I am afraid that this is a bit of a too soon reaction in order to show the world that this is indeed a real PvP game.
Anyway, some tips: after queuing up...
Extremely well said. I don't think it's too soon to add husks, but you presented a very well-reasoned argument for carefully monitoring the results. I suspect your tips for crafters will become standard practice until crafting with ingredients from the bank and auto-depositing finished goods to the bank are implemented.
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I think player looting will in fact really start the economic game of actual trading with other settlements and companies. Poaching will have a real risk and force players to make trades with gathers from other territories. Caravans will start up to transport those goods, planning will happen and coin will start to matter. People will get the idea that you gather in your own territory, if you are outside of that area, expect to be attacked by some if gathering, but not all. Identification will be a bit of a problem at first, but I'm sure will be worked out shortly, as we won't know who to kill and who to leave alone until we have that in.
I really think this is where the game will actually begin to matter. Sure the first couple of weeks have been cake, gather, get to your settlements, learn the ropes a little, nothing to lose. Now, there will be something to lose but with a few simple precautions the majority of the time you will be fine, and when you do get attacked (if in your own territory), you can call in your Company members and bring down the wrath (if you care to). If you are in a non-allies territory, take the risk and if you get caught so be it, work the trade/caravan setup instead. Resources start to REALLY matter so much more, communication as well.
Once the AH is fully functional (including buy orders) planning can go into each trip, time tables and pathing will matter, scouts will matter, the game will matter, and yes, working with others will be needed, but not all the time. In your own area most of the time you will be safe to roam.
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@Tyncale you state your hopes for the game experience you would like quite clearly and well. In context with the design intent quotes from the devs only a couple posts above, it doesn't sound like your talking about the same game though.
Mmm, I feel that I am describing the same game as Ryan did. If I had to describe my take on it, meaningful PvP with accountability through a political and diplomatic framework, and choices and options for the player to adapt and react. I.e. not a murdersim.
Running away is such an option, Ryan told us as much and I think the same. Dying will happen off course. I understand that his quote "dying a lot" will be many's favorite, however Ryan did describe a litle more about how all that works. He needs the PvE crowd to make this game happen, and become more then another 15k-subs Darkfall wannabe. To put it more crudely, he needs sheep, but he wants to make them care enough about what they are doing in the game (for their Settlement) that they will take the risks that come with it. Which is dying, and losing stuff.
I think that is an applaudable point of view and a reason that I was interested in this game. But you do not want to scare the sheep off, before they get a chance to attach themselves to the game and their settlement. Or before the tools are even in the game so they actually *can* adapt, like for instance being able to see *who* killed you(no Company name yet under a characters name). Right now, you can get killed without ever knowing who did it: that is a far cry still from the political and diplomatic game of thrones that I am expecting.
Same with Bandits: I am a guy who would pay the ransom, so would honor a SAD. If I was so stupid to run into them in the first place. . But if you put Bandits in, but not SAD, then you take away options and choices for the guy on that side of the equation, in order to adapt.
The fact that defenders now can not defend and scare of loiterers because of the rep-hits is simply another case of missing game-systems. Missing Feuds, missing the ability to set your own FFA laws in the hexes you control.
I am already respecting Golgotha's turf, simply through word of mouth(and some mutual beneficial trade :) ), so that is how I take my calculated risk. So adaptation from my side: but the game could use a few more systems from GW's side.
Anyway, it's all good: I was giddy when AH's went in, you guys are giddy when husk-looting goes in. :)
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Same with Bandits: I am a guy who would pay the ransom, so would honor a SAD. If I was so stupid to run into them in the first place. . But if you put Bandits in, but not SAD, then you take away options and choices for the guy on that side of the equation, in order to adapt.
With the proper setup, Stand & Deliver is already possible.
You spot a traveling merchant. You slow him and beat him down until he stops - either voluntarily or when he starts to bleed out. At that point, you carefully keep him healed but still bleeding out and have a conversation with him. "You can either give us what we want and walk away with the rest undamaged, or we can kill you and take everything that's left, damaging all your gear in the process."
I expect the more civilized lands will use a variation of this with poachers - at least if they're feeling generous. If you're adamant about protecting a particular resource, you might give them the opportunity to trade you all their gear and all their inventory, then kill them anyway to make sure they're not trying to hide anything. The honorable folks will give all of the gear back, undamaged. They might even give back some or even most of the resources and direct the poacher to the appropriate trade hub.
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Same with Bandits: I am a guy who would pay the ransom, so would honor a SAD. If I was so stupid to run into them in the first place. . But if you put Bandits in, but not SAD, then you take away options and choices for the guy on that side of the equation, in order to adapt.With the proper setup, Stand & Deliver is already possible.
You spot a traveling merchant. You slow him and beat him down until he stops - either voluntarily or when he starts to bleed out. At that point, you carefully keep him healed but still bleeding out and have a conversation with him. "You can either give us what we want and walk away with the rest undamaged, or we can kill you and take everything that's left, damaging all your gear in the process."
I expect the more civilized lands will use a variation of this with poachers - at least if they're feeling generous. If you're adamant about protecting a particular resource, you might give them the opportunity to trade you all their gear and all their inventory, then kill them anyway to make sure they're not trying to hide anything. The honorable folks will give all of the gear back, undamaged. They might even give back some or even most of the resources and direct the poacher to the appropriate trade hub.
This might be possible if toons didn't bleed out faster than their helpers can: finish the queued action, switch to heal bar, target the bleeder and cast heal. So far, we are able to save about 1 toon in 20. On a good day.
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This might be possible if toons didn't bleed out faster than their helpers can: finish the queued action, switch to heal bar, target the bleeder and cast heal. So far, we are able to save about 1 toon in 20. On a good day.
Well, it doesn't require making the target bleed out. The target could simply stop moving and stop attacking, effectively surrendering.
If the target insists on running or fighting, there's less incentive to offer them the option of keeping their gear undamaged or maybe even being sent home with some of their poached resources.
What Nihimon says about SAD is my thoughts on that, as well. In fact, I kind of like not having an official SAD mechanic because it means there is more skill required on the part of the attackers to capture the target, and an option for player skill on the part of the target to kick in, as well.
Also, welcome to the world of long-bow exploits are no longer useful. If you are going for SAD, killing your target in two hits is a waste.
On the point of rep loss and protecting territory, I think the current rep loss rate is probably fine if you mange it well; but I 100% agree about territory mechanics protecting rep loss in the future. But that is #inthefuture.
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...Anyway, it's all good: I was giddy when AH's went in, you guys are giddy when husk-looting goes in. :)
I'll be giddy with every new feature implementation, but, yes, I'm excited the new potential danger adds a lot to the feel of the game :)
I think our frames of reference and definitions for describing the scenarios in your post are very different, still I respect the way you present your argument. I wish you good fortune on your travels.
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...Anyway, it's all good: I was giddy when AH's went in, you guys are giddy when husk-looting goes in. :)I'll be giddy with every new feature implementation, but, yes, I'm excited the new potential danger adds a lot to the feel of the game :)
I think our frames of reference and definitions for describing the scenarios in your post are very different, still I respect the way you present your argument. I wish you good fortune on your travels.
Same! To be honest, I am a little exited too, to see how I am going to handle the situation.
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SAD always struck me as a good acronym as it clearly is sad in the sense it is meant to help out inept bandits who need every little bonus they could get.
There is no SAD in EVE just the spaceship equivalent of D&D crowd control spells and abilities.
A competent band of outlaws should be more than capable of stopping a merchant with hold person spells and tangle bombs and whatever else is needed and make the demand themselves without some game mechanic to make it easy for them. If the then renig on the deal well people will soon stop paying the ransom and fight it out instead.
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Thanks for the update and vision @GW team.
Happy New Year @all players too.
I've been very busy over the festive period, as I'm sure a lot of people have and a bit out of pocket too! Still it was a great festive time.
Well, I've also been studying a great deal as well as work and finally got a new graphics card. However I still need more memory and other major tweaks to my PC to finally get PFO/MMO to run let alone other games. That in addition to not feeling I'm missing much by delaying hopping into the game right now given all the above (very time-poor) as well as the game launching and all that usually entails in performance and features.
There's still my personal vision as well that I feel more strongly about and hence feel it's way's away yet with the devs working full-steam on the basics also.
I enjoyed Game of Thrones series over the festive period and it would be great to see PFO sigils and banners adorning the various settlements before long. Sometimes good presentation really does sell!
Well, wishing everyone G'luck in 2015. Big events this year.