Woes of a former Bard - CALLING ALL OPTIMIZERS

[Purple Dragon Knight]

bard 13+ (or bard 7 / evangelist 7 for effective bard 13...) lets you do bardic music as a swift action, which lets you cast a spell and move...

With my guy (see build above) I would typically cast Dimension Door as a standard action (and usually bring the fighter and rogue with me, and place them on each side of a foe on arrival, with me adjacent/diagonal both of them i.e. triangle formation around a foe), then as free action would whip out my rod of lesser quicken via glove of storing, and as a swift action, cast a spell or 3rd level or lower with it (typically blink, charm monster or haste; sometimes touch of gracelessness). Then I'd put the cherry on top and initiate inspire courage as a move action (+3 atk / +3 damage for everyone).

The DM hated this for a while, as he was used to players that focus on damage, and wasn't ready for the true awesomeness of a dedicated buffer. :)

Then he came to accept it and not blink twice when I pulled such moves, as this was my thing... he did blink twice when I took evangelist levels (Desna) and blew through every monster's SR though... :)

[Thaddeus Mead]

There are many reasons not to be a Bard, but it being a weak class isn't one. Still, if you're really set on a non-Bard, and want to have a variety of borderline abusive options at all levels, go Cleric.

A Cleric channeling negative energy has some pretty amazing options through variant channeling. You'll want a high cha for selective channel, and with a 16 cha, the divine conduit trait, and improved channel, you have a 30' burst that can miss your allies, and requires a 16 will save at first level.

Among the conditions you can inflict are sickened for 2 rounds, 1d2 intelligence damage, confusion, 1 point of str, dex, or con damage (your choice), dazed, or compelled to attempt a steal combat manuver on their next turn; basically wasting it in order to provoke an Attack of Opportunity. The save scales as you go up in level, as does the damage if they do save.

All of this is on top of being a full caster with 3/4 BAB, good saves, and medium armor. Get Sacred Summons to be able to summon outsiders of the same alignment as your deity as a standard action, and go to town.

[Lastoth]

the current king of campaign OPness is the dazing spell wizard IMO

[Purple Dragon Knight]

Lastoth wrote:

the current king of campaign OPness is the dazing spell wizard IMO

That is indeed interesting. Thank you. Takes three level higher though.

Toppling Spell makes a level 1 magic missile into a level 2 magic missile that can trip up to 5 creatures (caster level 9 assuming :) )

[Purple Dragon Knight]

Hmmmmmm.... to find a cheap staff that has magic missile on its list and to modify it with the wizard's own Toppling Spell feat. Doable yes?

Edit: staff of evocation at 82,000.... ouch!

Edit2: staff of minor arcana, 8,000!!! yay! :)

Edit3: lesser magic rod of toppling... ninja'ed by Fruian

[Fruian Thistlefoot]

Toppling doesn't work against everything. That is why toppling spell is a 1st level meta magic. Its cheap enough 3000g to carry a toppling spell metamagic rod lesser and just cast it as a regular magic missle. Works ok when you come across the right targets but doesn't take a feat from your Wizard for a Metamagic that quickly looses gusto.

[Purple Dragon Knight]

hmmm... bag full of pearls of power + quiver filled with a bunch of lesser metamagic rods of toppling = unlimited fun? :)

[Gregory Connolly]

Dazing Spell only takes up a spell slot 1 level higher if you have the traits Magical Lineage and Wayang Spellhunter. My Evoker throws 7d6+2 Sickening Fireballs DC 20 in choice of elements (that light up to 5 creatures on fire who fail the save, if I use an alchemist's fire as a material component) out of 3rd level slots at 5th level. That is what people talking about OP wizards are usually referring to. A dip of crossblooded sorcerer (Orc/Draconic) next level would up the damage to 7d6+16, though it isn't my plan it commonly is the plan. I want Dazing at 7th level instead of 8th. A lesser rod of Selective lets me not hit my buddies if they aren't with the plan.

[Purple Dragon Knight]

Dotted

[Ms. Pleiades]

Ashiel wrote:

thorin001 wrote:

Yes, a fighter will probably stomp a bard in a strait up fight.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, oh god, please, *falls over*, please stop, I can't take it, it's too much! *rolls around with sides aching and tears flowing freely*

Ahhh-hoooooo...wow, geeze, man that never gets old. The fun bit is, Bards are amazing. A very strong and versatile class that can paddle badguys with the best of the martials and as others have noted only get stronger in team-oriented scenarios.

An illusion/enchantment focused bard would probably mop the floor with a fighter, or rather convince the fighter that the mop is a sword and that the bard is the floor.

[AndIMustMask]

Ms. Pleiades wrote:

Ashiel wrote:

thorin001 wrote:

Yes, a fighter will probably stomp a bard in a strait up fight.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, oh god, please, *falls over*, please stop, I can't take it, it's too much! *rolls around with sides aching and tears flowing freely*

Ahhh-hoooooo...wow, geeze, man that never gets old. The fun bit is, Bards are amazing. A very strong and versatile class that can paddle badguys with the best of the martials and as others have noted only get stronger in team-oriented scenarios.

An illusion/enchantment focused bard would probably mop the floor with a fighter, or rather convince the fighter that the mop is a sword and that the bard is the floor.

sorry, im fairly squarely with the 'bad will save class vs will save-centric spell class is gonna have a really bad time' crowd here.