I haven't seen any chatter from aoenian legue or SW corner settlements, are they no shows?
War of towers starts tomorrow correct?
If none of them show up this week, when do those towers go up for grabs without that NAP business causing a rabble rousing.
Goblin Squad Member
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Ahem. Something something Sunholm.
I would need to look up the exact terms, I believe that the 'inactive' provision only kicks in if the alpha 6 haven't been taken within the first week. There is zero chance of that happening with any League settlement. And I have had diplomatic contact from Dagedai too, so I suspect they'll show up.
I can't speak for High Road, Doomhammer or Riverbank though. Nary a peep from them that I am aware of, at least.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought River Bank was on east side of pond. You may not see them if you play late. When towers are here we will see who is on when.
I'm in contact with Armenfrast, the leader of Riverbank. As an Everbloom Alliance member, we want to help him in any way we can.
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From an "Occupying their settlement" standpoint, the members of Blackfeather Keep are, technically, not AWOL (maybe). From a "playing the game" standpoint, the members of BFK are no where to be seen or heard. Their leadership's latest post on their website (on the 12th) was to call the war of towers, "a green shit stain of a bad idea." So we'll see.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I thought River Bank was on east side of pond. You may not see them if you play late. When towers are here we will see who is on when.I'm in contact with Armenfrast, the leader of Riverbank. As an Everbloom Alliance member, we want to help him in any way we can.
I can contact him IRL if ever, a friend of mine.
Yeah really disappointed in the future of BFK with the way they are completely indifferent to getting in game and getting some production going.
You should consider moving to Guardheim. We are already getting busy with folks from Ozems Vigil, and a few from Stoneroot Glade and even Talonguard. It will be a welcoming Crafting Settlement and Auction House. We won't be as lawful as BFK, but we have lots of Ozem's Lawfullness spilling over.
There are a number of basic arms and armor in the AH now, between 1 and 5 copper pieces each.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There where 9 settlements left with no members assigned.
Here is a list as of 10 min ago of all settlements with > 10 assigned characters
Brighthaven 97
Phaeros 57
Stoneroot Glade 56
Golgotha 50
Callambea 40
Ozem's Vigil 37
Keeper's Pass 36
Emerald Lodge 24
Tavernhold 18
Forgeholm 16
Talonguard 12
All of these have also been in the top 12 at landrush. The only settlement from the top 12 that dropped out is Aragon - currently at 4. None outside the top 12 is in this list (yet).
Below that it gets more mixes
Blackfeather Keep at 9 just outside the cut - Dagedai still missing in action.
There was a total of 9 settlements missing - or the other way round - 24 are active. This might increase by tonight.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Andius
Why do you have to give everything a negative twist ... You always claim superiority - so you should be aware that these numbers
overcount because:
You can have up to 3 characters (Main, DT, 1000XP alt) on an account
undercount because:
Leaders have to accept inside 1 hour or the application expires - this will be changed to 24 hours
I didn't add the numbers for smaller settlements. My spreadsheet shows 513 total
There are quite a few companies not aligned to settlements. Most of them are small - 1 to 4 members - but I saw three that have 6, 10 and 10 members
A lot of casual players haven't bothered yet to sign up for a company. I know of several players who told me personally they signed up and generated characters but they are not yet in my memberlist
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would like to add that at least 5 of the Callambean number (of 40) are Alts, namely mine(got 3 DT accounts). I am guessing there are a lot of Twins in that number of 443.
I do not want to join in the doom and gloom of "nobody is playing this" because I am having a lot of fun, but as long as we are throwing numbers around we should take Alts into consideration.
They are still "paying" characters though, so it depends on what you want to count. We have always known that this game would be great for Alts, at least for Twins.
I think the game is much more populated then I have ever seen in alpha. I will leave it to Ryan to reach those magical numbers in the thousands. I am pretty sure Steam Early Access could do this, however before we go there we need some more features first. I am guessing in 6 months.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I hadn't thought about the fact that the majority of players in the game have 1 free alt per account.
@Thod I simply totaled the numbers you gave and asked two questions. You'll notice one of those questions was what % of active players you believe aren't settlement members, so that factor was not overlooked.
Anyway If I remember right there were about 6000 accounts that paid a significant ammount to get in first month. All of which came with DTs. So yeah even I'm a bit thrown off by these numbers.
It would take over 3 times more players than those listed not counting any DTs to meet my lowest predictions for the first month activity of this game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There have been people who relentlessly bashed the game on these boards. This wasn't good advertisements. You know I contemplated to buy your accounts for friends of mine.
I never carried through as I wasn't sure if I was just a blind fan boy and would do them a disfavour reading what is wrong with the game - or if they miss out.
I love the game and I think everyone not playing is missing out on a lot of fun. I find it addictive and spend numerous hours either in game or doing politics.
But I guess players on the sidelines will need to be convinced and that the opportunities to shape the game and community is worthwhile drawbacks like graphics, animations or some aspects of non-user friendlyness as well as a steep learning curve without handholding.
And some player just want to wait for an existing economy. Golgothans PvPer had to dig coal. There just was no alternative (yet) if you wanted the best armour or weapon that the game could provide.
This is easing already a lot. I can now hand out +1 longbows and longswords without having to ask for materials in return. Couln't do this 5 days ago.
Still a struggle for +2 gear - but the regular players are gettin it.
Please remember this is still inside week 2 - and we just started with peasant clothes and a club. We have come a long way since.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Oh - and there is one aspect I forgot about low numbers
Currently invites expire after 1 hour. This works for a well oiled PvP settlement with a leader who is online a lot. But it will keep numbers low for settlements where the leader is not much online or which are less well organized or which span different continents.
This is changing with the next update to 24 or 48 hours but is way too short right now.
edit: Andius - Just notices that the UNC isn't yet officially aligned with Aragon for example. But if you get your information from Aragon then they are among the lowest numbers compared to the landrush.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well my most dismal projections for EE had 2000 accounts (or 1/3rd of the people who paid 100$ to get in first month) playing for at least a few days.
Keeping in mind DTs don't equal accounts do you think that mark has been met?
My personal thoughts is PFO's core players + a few would be consistently playing and each new month or major update would see a sharp population spike followed by a sharp decline much like seen in other Indy sandbox titles.
So far your reports all consistent with that it's just how few people seem to have shown for the first month after paying so much to do just that, that surprises me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think a lot of people payed for the 100 dollar Crowdforger deal mostly for the huge amount of PDF's(and maybe mini's) that came with that. So people not that interested in the MMO but rather in the goodies.
Doesn't account for all the missing folks, I am sure, but I remember this being a thing.
I am curious about the next PR move. I think the game still has huge potential, and I am having fun with the Crafting side of things now.
But that is not enough for the larger Steam Crowd, imo. I think putting more systems online is not really going to pull those missing folks out of the woodwork, tbh.
*If* there are hordes of bloodthirsty PvP waiting for Corpse Looting to go in, then that could go both ways very easily, when other systems are not implemented yet. So it seems to be a very slow start at first, untill we can offer the Steamcrowd some meat.
Untill then I think people have to trickle in through word of mouth and presence and interviews from the GW team on the Internet and conventions off course.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is my understanding that not all accounts purchased, even during the kick starter, are 1st Month EE access accounts. The remained, those after the 1 million mark of KS2, are 2nd Month.
The NAP agreement was predicated on the belief that EE population, especially among the settlement holders, would be significantly higher than the later stages of Alpha.
I believe the population is higher, but not significantly so. Only the Devs could give us the actual numbers, but that is something they would not likely do.
EVE Online has a feature that tells you how many are online, and what the average online has been over the day, week and month. DOTMAPS will actually show activity within individual systems, hourly, daily, etc. That includes valuable information such as NPC and PC Kills.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This game was marketed primarily to the tabletop audience. There are no bloodthirsty hordes banging down the door to try this game. If this game can get a good combat and PVP system and if it becomes successful enough for word about it to spread the PVPers will come in hordes.
EE was always the time I saw for those who wanted the community to belong to groups other than random gankers to organize build up and prepare for the OE.
That was based on Ryan's model of slow and consistant growth for PFO. I don't believe PFO will show consistent growth anymore which does mean the mooks may never show up in force. It unfortunately also means no growth in budget for PFO's development and possibly even future lay offs or project cancellation.
I see that future as more likely than EVE-like success which played a huge part in my decision to sell off all my accounts.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf,
I understand the devs have the raw data of the numbers, but not the tools to analyze the data yet (it has been mentioned before that they are awaiting the tech, and they are eagerly looking forward to deep analysis of what the players are doing in game).
Given the way that Lee and Stephen like to share math with us, I expect some numbers to be made available at some point. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Bluddwolf,
I understand the devs have the raw data of the numbers, but not the tools to analyze the data yet (it has been mentioned before that they are awaiting the tech, and they are eagerly looking forward to deep analysis of what the players are doing in game).
Given the way that Lee and Stephen like to share math with us, I expect some numbers to be made available at some point. :)
They will not show any math that demonstrates lower than expected interest in the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This game was marketed primarily to the tabletop audience. There are no bloodthirsty hordes banging down the door to try this game. If this game can get a good combat and PVP system and if it becomes successful enough for word about it to spread the PVPers will come in hordes.
EE was always the time I saw for those who wanted the community to belong to groups other than random gankers to organize build up and prepare for the OE.
That was based on Ryan's model of slow and consistant growth for PFO. I don't believe PFO will show consistent growth anymore which does mean the mooks may never show up in force. It unfortunately also means no growth in budget for PFO's development and possibly even future lay offs or project cancellation.
I see that future as more likely than EVE-like success which played a huge part in my decision to sell off all my accounts.
I will admit that in the back of my mind, I am steeling myself for that horrible post or annoucement that may come some day, where Lisa tells us that the project is cancelled because the money ran out.
UO2, AC2, Wish, Earth and Beyond, SWG, they were all downers, though I was not involved with all of them at the time the Axe fell. I did have a bit of a shock when they pulled the plug on Auto Assault though, for some reason I was attached to that game. Anyway, let us hope we never get to see such a sad announcement. MUCH more sad for the team then us, though.
I am hoping more of some sort of a happy 4th year anniversary post, where Lisa and Ryan look back on the slow and tough start that PFO had, and are all "look where we are now!"
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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I thought River Bank was on east side of pond. You may not see them if you play late. When towers are here we will see who is on when.I'm in contact with Armenfrast, the leader of Riverbank. As an Everbloom Alliance member, we want to help him in any way we can.
J'ai une super offre pour les fanatiques abonnés. Je suis le fondateur et sponsor du settlement de RiverBank mais le jeu ne correspondant pas à mes attentes je n'ai pas activé le territoire, et il sera bientôt (dans une semaine ?) remis en compétition. J'ai la possibilité de nommer un "co-leader" qui aurait comme responsabilité... et bien d'être responsable de la compagnie qui dirige le territoire.
Si ça vous branche envoyez moi un mp ici ou ici http://riverbank-pfo.guildlaunch.com/
Yesterday.
http://forums.jeuxonline.info/showthread.php?t=1287269&page=4
I don't speak French, but apparently I am good enough to be able to read it. Basically, sounds like they are looking for someone to step and help run the settlement, including offering an officer position.
Also, ignoring the troll is the quickest way to banishing the troll.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tyncale
Most Indy sandboxes limp along not really ever going anywhere big but not ever getting shut down either.
However I'll reassert my point PFO's ridiculously long training time to optomize a single build will be an issue to new players, and if growth is poor that issue will be compounded because vet players that have been playing religiously since launch will make up a significantly larger portion of the population. I could see that turning slow growth, or just treading water, into negative growth and an eventual shutdown.
I would hope revision to those systems will be made fast enough to prevent bleeding to death but I think once people climb high enough on the power ladder the decisions needed to fix it would be wildly unpopular with crowdforgers. That's one of the huge weaknesses with the system is players who decided to stay often will not support things needed to fix problems driving others away.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tyncale
Most Indy sandboxes limp along not really ever going anywhere big but not ever getting shut down either.
However I'll reassert my point PFO's ridiculously long training time to optomize a single build will be an issue to new players, and if growth is poor that issue will be compounded because vet players that have been playing religiously since launch will make up a significantly larger portion of the population. I could see that turning slow growth, or just treading water, into negative growth and an eventual shutdown.
That triggers something in my mind that I have been wondering about: I can see how Combat focussed characters do not necessarily need the full 2.5 years to grow into considerable power: but what about a level 20 Crafter? The thing with crafters is that you actually need to be level 20 in order to simply be able to make certain stuff.
If you want to be able to make the "Exquisite" line of jewelry as a Jeweller, you need to be at least level 18 up to 20. Now I am not saying that this particular line of Jewelrey itself is overpowering, but the cutoff point seems much more clear cut then with a COmbat character.
So I can see your argument certainly apply to folk who are dreaming of a full time Crafting career, all the way to the top. THough they will have to take on another role too, off course, because of the Ability req. But still, 2.5 years to be able to learn those level 20 recipes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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"I have a great offer for fans subscribers. I am the founder and sponsor of the settlement of RiverBank but the game does not match my expectations I have not activated the territory , and it will soon ( in a week ? ) Presented in competition. I have the opportunity to appoint a "co- leader" who would have the responsibility ... and to be responsible for the company that runs the territory.
If it connects you send me a pm here or here http://riverbank-pfo.guildlaunch.com/"
I resisted the urge to slip in a "I fart in your general direction."
As for numbers. From the perspective of someone playing in the European time zone, numbers are higher than I saw at the beginning of the stress test, and much, much higher than the end of alpha.
I am wondering what happened to some of the players who were very active even up to the very end of alpha. They even logged in at the beginning of EE but have not be seen since.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tyncale
Well based on my experience in Darkfall the absolute top of the line gear was more of a novelty thing than a major factor in faction/player strength. It's just too darn expensive to replace if lost. What's really going to make a huge deal is when that player who's been there forever is 5% stronger in 15 different areas. Think of that as being less like 105% as strong and much closer to 1.05 to the power of 15 converted to a percentage their strength (207%). Combat stats tend to stack that way.
That's going to be further amplified by the fact that the most powerful groups are often going to have doctrines that constantly change based on the current FOTM builds they expect you to be able to fit your character into.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I still don't get why people would spend so much money on a game and not give it time to mature while it still has so much development to go.
"So much money" is relative. Also, and this has been said often enough it is likely true, many of the $100 Pioneer backers contributed for the over $300 worth of PDFs. These backers had / have little or no intentions of actually trying the game.
In my own situation, I spent a bulk of my money on game time (25 months worth) and fir that reason I have the patience to wait and see.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A lot of casual players haven't bothered yet to sign up for a company. I know of several players who told me personally they signed up and generated characters but they are not yet in my memberlist
I count in this group. Deianira Sunstorm's in game, but I haven't left the starter town, or started The Groundlings, or officially joined Hammerfall. I'm waiting for hubby, brother and friends to get in game... although I'm getting a bit impatient with that!
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Goblin Squad Member
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A lot of casual players haven't bothered yet to sign up for a company. I know of several players who told me personally they signed up and generated characters but they are not yet in my memberlist
I count in this group. Deianira Sunstorm's in game, but I haven't left the starter town, or started The Groundlings, or officially joined Hammerfall. I'm waiting for hubby, brother and friends to get in game... although I'm getting a bit impatient with that!
I had to phone one of my TT roleplayers to leave the starter town and come towards Emerald Lodge. Will hear later how far he got.
@Bluddwolf,
I understand the devs have the raw data of the numbers, but not the tools to analyze the data yet (it has been mentioned before that they are awaiting the tech, and they are eagerly looking forward to deep analysis of what the players are doing in game).
Given the way that Lee and Stephen like to share math with us, I expect some numbers to be made available at some point. :)
LOL, waiting on the tech...
That makes no sense what so ever.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do want to mention, that just since Monday, we have had 3 players join, that were TEO members, that just didn't use Mumble, and their applications to our companies kept expiring. They wised up and got on mumble, within minutes we had them setup.
I feel there are a lot more playing than the data represents, the issue is that they took world chat out too soon. Hex chat isn't sufficient at all.
What they need to put in ASAP is the world chat feature back in, and a recruitment channel, as well as a company and settlement channel. With these options, I do believe we will see a large spike in population increases within the settlements.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I echo the Company and Settlement Channels. It's very difficult to find folks in my own Company and Settlement without either using third party means, or whispering each and every one of them.
It's probably the most asked for feature I keep hearing about for the Chats.
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I agree with Cougar.
The top three most asked for features at the moment are:
Chat options (world, comp, settlement, recruit....etc)
Banks (shared between chars, between comp, between settlement)
UI Improvements (sleeker, sliders, scroll bar use, active tool tips, key mappings/bindings, etc)