Improved Precise Shot ignores the AC bonus granted to targets by anything less than total cover.
A target behind cover gains a +4 cover bonus to AC.
A prone defender gains a +4 bonus to AC against ranged attacks.
It shouldn't be any more difficult for a character with Improved Precise Shot to hit a prone target then it would be to hit a target behind cover. In both cases the area to hit the target get's smaller, and since IPS ignores anything less than total cover, like trying to hit someone's feet beneath a wagon wouldn't incur any penalties to the attack, hiting a prove target underneath the wagon shouldn't be much different.
I'm thinking of leting IPS ignore the -4 penalty to attack to hit prone target if the range is 30ft or less.
Sounds fair. Not sure if you are after a PFS legal route though.
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By the same token, improved precise shot should ignore the AC bonus granted by armour: after all, like trying to hit someone's face poking above a wagon, hitting someone's face poking above a breastplate shouldn't be much different.
What i'm trying to say is, you should not try to rationalise feat effects using 'realism' or equivalency. That way lies madness in a system which only vaguelly attempts to model reality.
If you are looking for a 'legal' route though (PFS), the answer is no, IPS does not negate the AC bonus from prone. Nor should it.
Thx for the replyies. I don't play in PFS so that's not really an issue. I'm just looking for something fair. I don't want the rangeds to have to take yet another feat to ignore the prone target's bonus to AC, they already need plenty of feats.
We have a group full of archers and the melees wanna invest in Trip, cos it's just awesome, and we can't find an alternative to tank/CC that's as good as Trip/prone but doesn't give penalties to the rangeds.
We either want to improve the Stand Still feat/"chain" (that sucks) or find a way for rangeds to overcome prone targets.
Prone I would see more as a size bonus than a cover bonus, if you're looking to assign a bonus type.
The prone target is also taking a -4 to AC vs melee attacks and they need a move action which provokes to stand back up. I think this new rule is unfair to them. It is not like that bonus vs ranged attacks is free.
Ranged attacks, at least if your considering bows, don't really need any help. Bows are perhaps the most effective damage form for martial characters, outside of pouncing barbarians and pummeling strike punchers. Sure it takes a lot of feats to do it well...because its that damn good.
Besides which, as wraithstrike mentions they have to take an action to drop prone (though it is a free action) but then they need to take a standard action to stand back up. Coupled with the fact that they take penalties against melee attacks, it's enough on its own. You don't need to make Improved Precise Shot ignore the AC bonus from prone. Dropping prone to avoid archer attacks isn't likely to make enough of a difference. Consider that you require a standard to stand, and you will need to spend at least one move action moving. You're basically giving up a round to try to avoid getting hit. But at higher levels, when the archer has a +30 to hit and 7 attacks a round he really doesn't care if your AC is a little higher. He just got to trade 7 attacks to your nothing.
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I have to agree with wraithstrike and Claxon on this.
I have played an archer from lv 1 to 12. Once pass the lower levels, archers rule in combat. And my archer was on the lowest end of the wealth scale, when compared to my fellow players.
Range attacks via the bow is already one of the most effective combat styles in PF. Baring the use of spells like wind wall and similar abilities, there is very little to stop range attacks.
I totally understand the need for fairness, but this is one of those few situations where there is not a real need for it.
That said, if your the GM, it is totally your right to modify a feat for your game. Just think of being fair to the non-range martial characters too!
Well, I don't expect the enemies to drop prone, I expect ME to trip them so they don't reach the casters and rangeds, but I don't wanna give the rangeds a major attack penaly.
If there were some other form of Tanking as good as throwing everyone prone (-4 AC, -4 Attack, stops movement, forces them to spend the standard as a move to get up or stay prone with all those penalties, and AoO to get up!), but I have yet to find an alternative tanking method as good as triping that will work well with rangeds in the group.
Well, it is true that throwing people Prone is already too damn good and doesn't need any more bonuses, perhaps +4 vs Ranged is a good price to pay for all that. But our GM is merciless, he uses anti-ranged spells as soon as he can if the enemies are "On to us".
I'm looking into an alternative way of tanking with Dirty Trick/Blindness, that should make the rangeds happy. But if I can get the enemies Prone AND Blind, then I assume they will automatically yield, for they are as good as dead.
We also houserule that you don't provoke AoO as you get up from Prone, otherwise it's a Pronefest, EVERYBODY has Improved Trip. I don't know how people manage to play like that.
We also houserule that you don't provoke AoO as you get up from Prone, otherwise it's a Pronefest, EVERYBODY has Improved Trip. I don't know how people manage to play like that.
Pronefest? What do you mean here? I think I understand, but correct me if I'm wrong. Do you mean you just use improved trip to just knock them prone again? Because if you do, you're not correct. You can't use an AoO to trip someone standing up from prone.
Nah, we would not trip them again as they get up from prone, but the extra AoO from everyone around it, even with a basic melee attack, it just makes it too great, so good everybody, both we and the enemies would trip the first chance we could get, to a point the DM was using too many Oozes.
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@Kchaka,
I think I understand whats happening in your game. I have heard horror stories from the 3.5 days to characters build just to trip everyone around them. Usually a whip/chainwhip type build.
Its just a little harder to pull off in PF, but once its up and facing the right kind of enemies... ToT
Are you the GM? You could add enemies that can't be tripped or are very difficult to trip...
Echoing Claxon and Secane, archers are already powerful enough in PF. No need to give them a free buff.