edit: I started searching the forums for related posts about this adventure path and wealth, and most if not all go off on tangents and off course topics about spoilers and ideas to convince GMs to buy back loot at full cost. I'd like to continue to ask this question despite it being asked before, if only to get a straight answers about how other GMs have handled wealth in their Rise of the Runelords campaigns.
Disclaimer: I am fully aware that each party and experience is different and where one game might have an abundance of wealth and items, another might get by just fine without flashy fancy treasure. I also concede that the DM is in charge of making the experience work regardless of treasure given.
**Disregarding** these two facts, by the core book Character Wealth by Level, players should get a certain number of wealth by each level, to purchase goods, upgrade gear, etc ... And it seems like Rise of the Runelords has been a bit behind on treasure.
For Rise of the Runelords:
- Do you compensate by adding more treasure in your group?
- Do you leave it as is?
- Do you compensate if your group is composed of 5 or 6 players?
- Have you found a need to provide loot/gold/treasure outside of what is detailed in each module?
Context: If it helps, my group has 5 players, each level 8, and they just started the Hook Mountain Massacre. I have calculated the total expected wealth gained, as per the module, at around 29000gp by the time they should hit level 9, short of the standard 4 man group amount of wealth expected of 52000gp and much shorter of the expected wealth of our 5 man group which would be 65000gp. Up until now, the treasure has been pretty sparse as well, giving an overall impression that the campaign is stingy wealth wise. Intentional?
the path is designed for four PCs if you have more then that then you might have to add some in, i don't have specific examples of this particular AP but its my understanding it is above APL
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Do the players feel below the level they should be for wealth?
If yes, and they're chafing under the lack of resources, find the first plausible place to dump some loot on them and do it.
If they're not feeling any urgency, just coast on the current payout levels and "bank" it for a truly impressive cash dump later in the campaign.
If you've got more than four PCs, you can bump the treasure up, or you can leave it as is and hope it helps to keep Challenge Rating on target.
As with most balance metrics in pathfinder, it's a black box. You set the ability score pools, treasure, challenge rating, etc. and they all interact. You can only run the game and see how it comes out, then adjust as necessary.
Some character types and players are just more gold-hungry than others.
When I ran Runelords, it was boom and bust, wealth-wise. But we DID see boom times.
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...by the core book Character Wealth by Level, players should get a certain number of wealth by each level, to purchase goods, upgrade gear, etc ...
This is a patent falsehood perpetuated by players.
Table: Character Wealth by Level lists the amount of treasure each PC is expected to have at a specific level. It is assumed that some of this treasure is consumed in the course of an adventure (such as potions and scrolls), and that some of the less useful items are sold for half value so more useful gear can be purchased.
In other words, the WBL is a "maximum", and actual character wealth SHOULD be behind this. The only exception to this is PFS, where if you're starting a 7th-level PC, you get 7th-level WBL.
(Note the extreme case: If everything you find is not useful to you, so you sell EVERYTHING at half value, you will be at 1/2 WBL.)And it seems like Rise of the Runelords has been a bit behind on treasure.
As has been cited on other threads, no, no it's not. Some of it is just well-hidden. And it comes in fits and starts. My players were downright poverty-stricken compared to WBL in the middle of Book 2. By the end, they were above it.
- Do you compensate by adding more treasure in your group?
- Do you compensate if your group is composed of 5 or 6 players?
- Have you found a need to provide loot/gold/treasure outside of what is detailed in each module?
Context: If it helps, my group has 5 players, each level 8, and they just started the Hook Mountain Massacre. I have calculated the total expected wealth gained...
OK.
- You've done a bunch of calculations. Have you calculated the total available loot in the AP? I think you'll find it matches WBL for 4 players fairly well. Are you going to reward your players for missing available loot by providing it to them anyway? Are you doing something to prevent them from getting all of that loot?
- How are the combats going? Easy? Hard? How many PCs have died? To hear "there's a problem with loot" with no evidence that it's affecting anything other than player entitlement makes me, shall we say, skeptical?
I know this whole post sounds like an angry, anti-WBL tirade. But having been on these boards for several years now, I see SOOOOO many posts of, "This AP doesn't give enough loot, so I upped the loot so all my PCs were at WBL. Furthermore, this AP is waaaay too easy!"
Related? I think so.
I would rather FIRST check how the fights are going, THEN talk about loot. If the fights are already easy, then there's no need for more loot.
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I've found in general that managing WBL is the hardest metric to handle as a GM, moreso than adjusting encounters or getting the party engaged by events. As such I've very much taken a "Bundled" approach to wealth, where every so often they come across a hoard. It's especially useful when they end up fighting a lot of monsters that aren't carrying their own equipment.
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I had a 5 player group , plus cohort the group ended up significantly above WBL for level 16 which is the level I capped them at. I don't count the value of their crafting feats on this just the loot recieved. I also recall going through and calculating WBL and while there were a few points the characters would be behind overall they were level with or above WBL all the way through .
As a recent player through this AP, my experience was that while we whinged quite a lot about wanting more loot, we did end up with quite a lot.
However, it definitely came in big piles every now and then so we felt behind for a while and then we were ahead for a time.
The hardest part was early on, where if the found loot wasn't what we needed we had to sell it and therefore only had half the value of it to buy the stuff we wanted.
A disclaimer: I never calculated whether we were getting the 'official' amount at any point and our GM definitely changed bits.
Edit: ninja'd by my GM.
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However, it definitely came in big piles every now and then so we felt behind for a while and then we were ahead for a time.
To me, this is the wealth game at its best! A big payday means so much more (and feels more heroic) when it comes after a long dry spell.
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I am currently running RotRL for 7 players (we started with 6 and added another at the beginning of Chapter 5). I've made some small modifications to the treasure pay out, but these are mostly minor such as:
When I modify an encounter for 7 players, some of the enemies I add might have some magical loot items.
I generally don't change the treasure from what's listed in the book. When I do, I generally swap out an existing item for one of equal-ish value that I expect to be more meaningful to a particular party member.
Next one:
For the first half of the AP (through HMM), some of my players belly-ached about being below the wealth level they thought they should be at (Greed points for you!). This is partly because the AP is light on wealth for the first half and because the heroes had to pay for one, maybe 2, raise/res spells. Those can be very wealth-depleting at lower levels.
The second half of the AP (from FotSG), the wealth handed out by the AP starts to increase. Currently, my 7 players are exploring Runeforge and have more than sufficient wealth.
Also, when you have more than 4 or 5 players, don't be afraid of using character/group wealth as an additional tuning knob that you can use to dial in the difficulty of your encounters. If you start to think their gear is too good, then dial back the wealth you include for a couple levels.
-Skeld
How do they get behind by the end of book 2?
The mayor should have given out 6k each and there were literally a dozen very decently valued masks and other stuff they should have found - along with art and other such stuff from the mansion.
I get complaints about this AP for about 1/2 of book one - there is a *loooong* slog in the beginning where you might feel like you don't find anything but pocket lint - but it picks up after that.
How do they get behind by the end of book 2?
The mayor should have given out 6k each and there were literally a dozen very decently valued masks and other stuff they should have found - along with art and other such stuff from the mansion.
I get complaints about this AP for about 1/2 of book one - there is a *loooong* slog in the beginning where you might feel like you don't find anything but pocket lint - but it picks up after that.
Yeah, when I hear complaints about low loot, I ask about the selfsame masks. I remember the party did a loot distribution right after selling them off and distributed 48k among the 4 of them...
I've read of some GMs not allowing the selling of evil items, which absolutely hammers loot. (I allowed my players to sell them to the temple of Iomedae for destruction.)
I allowed/allow the sale of evil items again with the justification that they are selling to temples of Good to ensure their destruction and get the payment as a reward for their good intentions
Yeah, as was already noted above, treasure in RotRL tends to come in big packets - you'll go for a while with nothing, and then suddenly hit a horde with multiple encounters worth of loot in it.
My PCs never had any issues with money.
Of coruse, I also allowed selling the evil items (for bounties) and selling all of the large sized gear from the ogres and giants. Some GMs don't allow selling that stuff, either.
I have just finished book 1, and did a wealth check as some players expressed concern, and they are about exactly where they should be. It is very unevenly distributed between individual players (One player making out like a pirate with a certain ring), but as a party they are about right.
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Zhangar makes a great point -- I've seen some GM threads where the GMs don't feel it's "realistic" to give full value (well, half purchase price) for unusually-sized items (a certain tiny +1 cold iron returning dagger, for instance).
If the GM starts saying, "That treasure isn't treasure, you can't sell it," then yes, you'll run into money issues.
Zhangar makes a great point -- I've seen some GM threads where the GMs don't feel it's "realistic" to give full value (well, half purchase price) for unusually-sized items (a certain tiny +1 cold iron returning dagger, for instance).
If the GM starts saying, "That treasure isn't treasure, you can't sell it," then yes, you'll run into money issues.
My group skipped the catacombs entirely - I mean they saw the entrance and decided that they didn't want to investigate. (There was a big blowup between the players about metagaming with one person *insisting* that exploring it because it's mysterious was out of game knowledge - that player quit the game soon after but the damage was done and I decided to let the entire thing go as the catacombs are cool and can help tie the plot together I wasn't going to railroad them into them).
I did give the PC's a 10% bonus on selling anything in Sandpoint - it helped them be 'big cool heroes'. I also gave them a 10% discount after they did enough in town.
By the end of the book they had to truck a bunch of stuff to Magnimar to sell (due to Sandpoints economy).
As to the masks I had the church of Abadar approach them and offer them 50% of the value straight up - the church put them into a vault.
Anyway yeah if you disallow selling of stuff you run into issues.
My PC's are at the end of Thistletop, just ran from a tough encounter that requires magic weapons, and fussed that they didn't have appropriate gear. But looking through the "Loot Log" they have the tools to do the job, they just didn't fit the characters preferences.
Also they have a significant pile of wealth, that if they went back to sell, they could gear up nicely. It's just not liquid assets yet.
I'm not a big believer in WBL anyway, but there are certain tools you need for certain encounters, and (so far) they seem to be provided, even if not always in the manner most useful to the PC's.
Another way to upgrade the loot available to players is through grateful NPCs. The players have been busy saving Sandpoint? The high priest will surely donate a batch of potions, and one of the noble families might scrounge up an heirloom weapon or two to give them.
My players are in the middle of Thistletop... and are doubtless in for a big surprise in the lower levels when next we play in a couple weeks. Only two of them have magic weapons, and none of them are spellcasters, so it's going to be rough. But IMHO they need to be humbled a bit, since with a front line of fighter, paladin and barbarian, all with 2-handed weapons, they are a terror when they get their mojo going.
Since it's not PFS, the DM can certainly feel free to spice up the loot drops any way that feels right. Reward heroic actions richly, and let em starve as long as things are easy for them. That's my cunningly evil plan, anyway.
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Zhangar makes a great point -- I've seen some GM threads where the GMs don't feel it's "realistic" to give full value (well, half purchase price) for unusually-sized items (a certain tiny +1 cold iron returning dagger, for instance).
If the GM starts saying, "That treasure isn't treasure, you can't sell it," then yes, you'll run into money issues.
I mostly run under the assumption that NPCs will break down non-conventional equipment and gear into raw materials, including any magical essence from enchanted items. It's why my homebrewed 'Blacksmith' NPCs tend to have a spellcasting sibling to help with the process. In evil settlements it can get quite funny. "All this equipment is family made. My brother that I keep chained in the basement enchants it."
Creative Director
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The adventure ABSOLUTELY assumes that the PCs sell the evil masks off for bounties or whatever to good-aligned churches. In fact, that's hardcoded into the adventure, on page 125 of the anniversary edition.
Any official church in Magnimar will gladly pay bounties for [the evil masks] equal to half their value—in this manner, PCs can effectively sell off these valuable items and get rewarded while at the same time being assured that they will not fall back into the wrong hands.
This is one of those sentences (of many throughout the book) that I put into the hardcover SPECIFICALLY as a result of the extensive feedback folks gave about the first incarnation of Runelords, and it was good advice to spell that out in print so that GMs know it's fine to let the PCs sell those masks.
In fact, for pretty much all adventures (Runelords Anniversary Edition included), we generally aim to place about twice as much wealth in the adventures than the PCs should probably have at their expected wealth by level. AKA: If a party of four PCs goes through the adventure and loots everything, they'll have double (if not more than that) the wealth for their level as according to the Core Rulebook.
Obviously, most groups won't get every single item. Others will sell some items for half value. Some groups will need to spend money to recover from death or energy drain or other spellcasting services.
But that's why I aim for twice the wealth by level for the adventures.
If you have more than five players, and if they aren't selling evil magic items to good churches for bounties, and if they're skipping content (and thus missing treasure), then yes, they'll have less wealth. As a GM, you need to be on the lookout for those elements and be active about seeding in new bits of wealth to keep the PCs on track.
...
Context: If it helps, my group has 5 players, each level 8, and they just started the Hook Mountain Massacre. I have calculated the total expected wealth gained, as per the module, at around 29000gp by the time they should hit level 9, short of the standard 4 man group amount of wealth expected of 52000gp and much shorter of the expected wealth of our 5 man group which would be 65000gp. Up until now, the treasure has been pretty sparse as well, giving an overall impression that the campaign is stingy wealth wise. Intentional?
I don't quite get what you're trying to say here. Not sure where the 52k or 65k number comes from nor why having 5 players would change the number. The WBL for 8th level per the chart you linked to is 33k for 8th level and 46k for 9th. And what is the 29k number? Is that your calculation of the per pc amount of treasure in the AP (assuming 4 pc's?) I don't take WBL very seriously and haven't added it up and couldn't tell you how much each of my players have but I can say I recall them having 74k+ gp when they finished Skinsaw - and they spent nearly every dime on new magic items. That's over 18k per pc and it was earned primarily in Magnimar and they weren't paupers before they got there.
Taking advantage of item crafting feats I find my players seem to be getting ahead of their WBL, actually. We have had a fifth player join the game, but at this stage I am not adjusting the treasure upwards as I feel they have enough loot at the moment. Splitting the loot five ways instead of four may solve the problem.
I think for my next campaign I will get rid of crafting feats. I will say that by having the minimum level required by the feat and making the requisite skill check they can make any item they want... at full price. Let them spend feats on actual character abilities. My party oracle does all the crafting and he's a bit behind everyone else in terms of character power, partly because of this.
Peet
Taking advantage of item crafting feats I find my players seem to be getting ahead of their WBL, actually. We have had a fifth player join the game, but at this stage I am not adjusting the treasure upwards as I feel they have enough loot at the moment. Splitting the loot five ways instead of four may solve the problem.
I think for my next campaign I will get rid of crafting feats. I will say that by having the minimum level required by the feat and making the requisite skill check they can make any item they want... at full price. Let them spend feats on actual character abilities. My party oracle does all the crafting and he's a bit behind everyone else in terms of character power, partly because of this.
Peet
FYI the rules are that a crafter *should* be ahead of WBL as the bonus for getting the feat. That makes it a powerful feat - *if* you let them creep ahead of the WBL curve. Otherwise you shouldn't let them take it if you feel you have to reduce treasure - at that point it doesn't help them.
To chime in, no I did not add any wealth. I have 4 PCs split amongst two players. No crafters. My players die a lot, but this is more due to newbie mistakes than anything to do with wealth. They have never complained about feeling poor, though this is also their first campaign. I feel that my players have good equipment and weapons but do not steamroll through every encounter, even in the sixth book combat becomes more and more swingy.
A lot of the wealth in RoTRL is missable, so if your players don't have the incentive to search every nook and cranny (mine sure don't) it may become worse. Personally, I would not tweak the wealth given by this AP unless the players themselves seem underpowered for encounters.
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I think that what most groups miss is that all the gear on the NPCs is treasure. My players make a habit of collecting every scrap they can to sell. From the armour and weapons to the the stuff that is actually treasure, and everything in between. I bet they leave every dead enemy combatant practically naked. The first magic item they buy is the Handy Haversack. Between the four of them, they can haul a lot of loot out of the dungeons. At some point soon they will likely buy a bag of holding.
My party is one that does investigate every nook and cranny. We just finished Skinsaw Murders and I am 100% certain they got it all. The only thing I had to prod them on a bit was the selling of the evil masks. That was solved when they visited the Temple of Iomedae and one of them got the hairy eyeball because he was carrying the Stalker's Mask and Tira Ronnova sense the slight evil it. She offered to buy it from him. After that, they sold every one of the masks to the Iomedae Temple.
This adventure path does not lack for loot.
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I customize the vast majority of treasure, and it tends to make appearances in fits and spurts, allowing me to see how the campaign adjusts to the newfound power level. My players love it, but they've never been the sort to be defined by their gear.
Moreover, a lot of the 'wealth' takes form in other ways than coin. The party donated the Everburning candles they found to Zantus' Cathedral, earning his appreciation and future aid without having to pay coin for it. He even loaned them a custom healing wand for use at Thistletop and it twice proved the difference between survival and death. I had the remains of a pre-Earthfall map found in the Catacombs showing the border between Shalast and Alanzist's realm (I forget the name off-hand). I had already determined it'd be worth 500 gp to a collector of Thassilonian lore and even had a buyer lined up for when they wanted to sell.. but instead they elected to gift it to Brodert and it has helped him tremendously in his efforts to prove his theories about the Old Light. In return he has gifted them with the odd scroll at times, has given them insight into some of the foes they've faced, and will even join them on one of their expeditions in the near future.
Wealth by level feels like a hold over from MMO's and video games and has never been necessary for me to run an effective and enjoyable campaign.
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In fact, for pretty much all adventures (Runelords Anniversary Edition included), we generally aim to place about twice as much wealth in the adventures than the PCs should probably have at their expected wealth by level. AKA: If a party of four PCs goes through the adventure and loots everything, they'll have double (if not more than that) the wealth for their level as according to the Core Rulebook.
Uhm, what, really?
I have played RoTR, WoTR, the first book of skull and shackles, and I am in book three for mummy's mask. I have pretty much done every encounter in those books, and I look for everything, and I ended up extremely poor.
Oh come on now, now you're just being silly!
If you played WotR there is no way, and i mean no way you came out of it poor, no way.edit: I've never had anyone complain about too little treasure in an AP, never ever once:)
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I find it pretty hard to believe that a party of 4 in rise of the runelords could have 480000g each. Maybe instead of doubling, you should have like, 10x the amount of wealth? that seems closer to appropriate imo
Er. you missed a decimal point. I said 48,000, not 480,000.
I think you may need to have a heart-to-heart with your GM. I haven't done Skull & Shackles or Mummy's Mask, but *if* your GM is letting you sell everything appropriately, you should be right on in RotRL, and around double in WotR. (Seriously. WotR has stupid-high wealth.)
The GM threads in pretty much every AP I've run have at least one, "One of my players says wealth is too low in this AP," followed by a calculation of available wealth by a GM with enough time on his/her hands to do it.
Is your GM allowing you to sell tiny/huge weapons for the same value as small/medium weapons? Is he/she allowing you to sell evil items to temples?
As I've mentioned, the *only* AP I've run into where wealth was a serious issue was Carrion Crown, and that was because you were supposed to be far more mercenary than our group cared to be. In RotRL at 15th level with no crafting my PCs were over 200,000 each, so something's strange there...
EDIT: I have read that in Skull & Shackles if you don't do the whole "pirating" thing you fall way behind on wealth as well...
EDIT2: I'm interested enough that over the next couple of days I'll do a spreadsheet of, "Available loot" vs. "Loot some GMs won't let you sell" for Books 1 and 2 and post the results. For example, each and every one of those goblins in Book 1 had gear that sold for 22 g.p. Not a lot at first, but by 30 or 40 goblins it starts to really add up. There's also a 5000+ gp tiny dagger and a 3000 gp giant head, so you're already nearing 10,000 gp in lost loot just JUST IN BOOK 1 because your GM says, "Realism, baby!" I'm actually very interested now, but this pesky "work" thing keeps me from doing it today...
Skull & Shackles is really good for treasure, even if you go more explorer and treasure finder types then straight up piracy, i think where people start feeling left behind a bit maybe is that some of the magic items are for your ship.
And i did have one guy once arguing about not getting enough treasure however his wife hit him in the head with a frying pan shortly thereafter (there were other issues there.... still gotta love self-policing amongst the party:-p)
Do you not have Skull & Shackles Nobodyshome? if not i highly recommend getting it:-)
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Skull & Shackles is really good for treasure, even if you go more explorer and treasure finder types then straight up piracy, i think where people start feeling left behind a bit maybe is that some of the magic items are for your ship.
And i did have one guy once arguing about not getting enough treasure however his wife hit him in the head with a frying pan shortly thereafter (there were other issues there.... still gotta love self-policing amongst the party:-p)
Do you not have Skull & Shackles Nobodyshome? if not i highly recommend getting it:-)
I -own- them all. There's just this thing called "time" that keeps me from running them all at once. :-P
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Yeah stupid time, always keeping us down, and don't get me started on Steam Engine Enthusiasts, telling me to calm down:-p
I was super excited when S&S was announced, like Seahawks winning last weekend excited, and just as crestfallen as packers fans last weekend when it was constantly delayed (i had always wanted to have a pirate campaign and a dwarven ranger and was always told it couldn't be done, like since i started playing ADnD 30 years ago)
And boy were Packers fans upset this week, like kids crying at school on Tuesday upset, its not a happy scene around these parts, my daughter (who was born in Seattle) even said "I feel like an a%@!$!% being happy while everyone else is so sad" my response was "I guess they'll just have to comfort themselves with all their other super bowl trophies" she felt much better after that:-)
edit: and we're off to the Zoo, because 38 degrees is *warm* here : -) vb
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Although, according to nobody's home, maybe in rise of the runelords my character had to pay for 34 raise deads since you are supposed to be behind on wbl
There's your problem, frankly. That's a LOT more raise deads than normal.
If I were your GM and saw that the party was burning through characters that often, I would have probably dialed back the danger and strength of the encounters AND added more treasure into the adventure to compensate.
Although, according to nobody's home, maybe in rise of the runelords my character had to pay for 34 raise deads since you are supposed to be behind on wblThere's your problem, frankly. That's a LOT more raise deads than normal.
If I were your GM and saw that the party was burning through characters that often, I would have probably dialed back the danger and strength of the encounters AND added more treasure into the adventure to compensate.
Er, James? I love you to pieces and all, but I believe his [sarcasm] flag was on for that post...
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I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic James, I doubt nobodyshome is that brutal:-)
Ninja'd by the Bard himself:-)
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I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic James, I doubt nobodyshome is that brutal:-)
Ninja'd by the Bard himself:-)
Y'know, I'd argue that "I'm no bard" because my singing is enough to make children cry and widows weep, but I do tell a damn good story.
I'm just one of those, "non-performing" bards...
Hey, wait! Didn't I see some "Love doctor" on these boards who could solve "non-performance" issues? Hmm...
Smurfs cure all ailments, or is that cause them.... Not the kinda thing to get mixed up...
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Creative Director
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Er, James? I love you to pieces and all, but I believe his [sarcasm] flag was on for that post...Although, according to nobody's home, maybe in rise of the runelords my character had to pay for 34 raise deads since you are supposed to be behind on wblThere's your problem, frankly. That's a LOT more raise deads than normal.
If I were your GM and saw that the party was burning through characters that often, I would have probably dialed back the danger and strength of the encounters AND added more treasure into the adventure to compensate.
Take that as a learning moment, then, that the internet does not always deal well with sarcasm.
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It does make me wanna drop 34 Raise Dead scrolls at 2nd level
PC: err, we don't need all of these...
GM (ominously): oh, you will....
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You may be unique in not making enough money in any adventure path all the ones I have run the party has normally been ahead of WBL even without crafting frankly I cannot see anyway to be poor in RoRL as for Wrath of the righteous at 12th level with 0 crafting each pc has 194,000gp at 12th level and that is halving the value of each item as they have kept some of those items I would say each Pc has well over double WBL and frankly they have not been very efficient looters. I don't have the same figures for RoRL as my spreadsheets have a lot of allowance for crafting and the party stopped tracking wealth when they started part 6 as they had no opportunity to sell anything and again they had more money than WBL by the end of the game not counting most of the loot from part 6. They had also invested around 50,000 between them in Thistletop and that was not included in my wealth tracking
edit
Found a spreadsheet
Each Pc had about 336000 gp at the end of the Runeforge
I find it pretty hard to believe that a party of 4 in rise of the runelords could have 480000g each. Maybe instead of doubling, you should have like, 10x the amount of wealth? that seems closer to appropriate imoEr. you missed a decimal point. I said 48,000, not 480,000.
James says he puts double WBL in adventure paths, such as rise of the runelords. level 15 wbl is 240,000. There is no way for it to be possible to have double that much gold with ZERO CRAFTING. Maybe he is forgetting you have to sell things for half, so maximum posssible wealth is only 240,000 by level 15? I read through rise after the campaign ended and our party did not miss 76 +2 longswords (aka being down 150,000g each
Also each ap I played has been with a different gm. I also didn't reference skull and shackles and WoTR as having different wbl, because S&S has a story reason and wotr is way way too much somehow
Well, you've made me curious enough to spend a few hours doing the spreadsheet. I'm selling everything (including consumables) at half value, and we can at least see what Books 1 and 2 look like.
My PCs were swimming in money, so 70k at 15th level just seems *wrong*. You're absolutely right that they didn't have 480k each, but they were definitely close to that 240k mark.
When you see THAT big of a difference, you wonder, "What did the GM omit/prevent the PCs from selling?"
Anyway, I don't know how curious you are, but you've got me on it, and I'm OC so it'll show up on Monday...
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by monday i will have switched avatars at least five or six times:-p
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by monday i will have switched avatars at least five or six times:-p
Damn you and your forcing me to change my underwear ways!
James says he puts double WBL in adventure paths, such as rise of the runelords. level 15 wbl is 240,000. There is no way for it to be possible to have double that much gold with ZERO CRAFTING. Maybe he is forgetting you have to sell things for half, so maximum posssible wealth is only 240,000 by level 15? I read through rise after the campaign ended and our party did not miss 76 +2 longswords (aka being down 150,000g eachAlso each ap I played has been with a different gm. I also didn't reference skull and shackles and WoTR as having different wbl, because S&S has a story reason and wotr is way way too much somehow
He's not forgetting that you can/have to sell some stuff for half; he's saying that the totals they aim for are double in terms of the raw value, before you account for stuff like that.