As the title says I am about to start campaign on Sunday and I am torn on what class to play.
I am going to be one of two front line fighters the rest of the party is a Dragon Rider/Hunter, Wizard (Crafting), Witch, Magus, and Investigator.
I am stuck between Swashbuckler, and War Priest.
Some of the campaign rules stats are all starting 10's and 24 points to put wherever we want can be all 14's or 3 18's 3 10's before racial, and one stat can be dropped to an 8 but nothing lower than that starting.
Also Magic is a little funky, and there is going to be a feat tax to in order to successfully cast transmutation, and conjuration spells and (not that this is a big deal) but I am limited to Human to be able to accomplish this.
Another little twist is shield bonuses are 1 higher except for buckler, and apply to touch AC, and Reflex Saves (just want to put everything i can think of on the table)
Also my DM is making his own gods and I don't have the list yet so I don't know what possible favored weapons I have available.
We are starting at level 4, and are probably going to get to lvl 18 if not 20+ I have 7200 gold, and access to 1 additional item up to 5k thats supposed to be more for roleplaying than straight combat purposes
I have the swashbuckler completely made at this point because I didn't want to deal with the spell casting misfire chance, but now that I know as a Human I can avoid that I kind of want to play a Spell Caster because I never have before.
So with all that said advice on which i should go with, and which meshes better with the party
Warpriest is stronger than swashbuckler, especially if you go Sacred Fist. That said, if house rules against magic are going to be messing you up, then swashbuckler is an adequate class, even with the poor saves.
A good alternate would be the Daring Champion cavalier, that has the good parts of the swashbuckler on a better chassis.
Imbicatus wrote: Warpriest is stronger than swashbuckler, especially if you go Sacred Fist. That said, if house rules against magic are going to be messing you up, then swashbuckler is an adequate class, even with the poor saves.
A good alternate would be the Daring Champion cavalier, that has the good parts of the swashbuckler on a better chassis.
I did a monk in my last campaign so i was trying to avoid the SF/MoMS build
and the save thing is one thing i forgot to mention my DM houseruled that Swash gets a good fort save, and allowed me to take a 3rd party feat self delusion where i can use Cha instead of Wis for Will saves
Before you start play, I'd be sure to verify that your GM is not actually using the normal point buy system for your starting stats. That could make a difference as far as choice goes.
Adept_Woodwright wrote: Before you start play, I'd be sure to verify that your GM is not actually using the normal point buy system for your starting stats. That could make a difference as far as choice goes. this is the system we have used for years and i know the ability of getting way higher stats than normal makes normally MAD classes more feasable
Swashbucklers are crazy fun, plus your party is currently lacking any Cha-based characters. It sounds like a face would be useful.
RumpinRufus wrote: Swashbucklers are crazy fun, plus your party is currently lacking any Cha-based characters. It sounds like a face would be useful. the guy playing a magus is decently Facey, but yeah i agree i am definitely leaning toward Swash the only problem is our group is High Int low Con and are generally very "squishy" so I think WP can be tankier with the extra feats, spells, and heavy armor/shield
Swashbucklers can be surprisingly tanky. Good Dex, bonus AC, d10 HD, and great defensive abilities like Opportune Parry and Dodging Panache all combine to make quite a hardy character.
RumpinRufus wrote: Swashbucklers can be surprisingly tanky. Good Dex, bonus AC, d10 HD, and great defensive abilities like Opportune Parry and Dodging Panache all combine to make quite a hardy character. Very True
just wish there was a bloodline with an inherent dex bonus like Orc has to STR since i have the cha anyways
There is the Pit-Touched Wildblooded Bloodline to boost con if you want to be tankier. You would need GM approval as you can't normally take wildblooded bloodlines with Eldritch Heritage.
As far as I remember there was a trait that let you use charisma for willsaves. No need to use up a whole feat + it wasn't 3rd party..if i could only remember the name.
I'd recommend swashy. There's nothing stopping you from taking con aboard and you have more fun and expandable ways to raise AC than relying on armor, although the house-ruled shield boon does make things more tempting
edit: found the trait - Irrepresible..admittedly that feat will be better, as the trait only applies vs charm and compulsion
StDrake wrote: As far as I remember there was a trait that let you use charisma for willsaves. No need to use up a whole feat + it wasn't 3rd party..if i could only remember the name. Irrepressible. It also stacks with Steadfast Personality (but overlaps with Charmed Life per FAQ.)
Imbicatus wrote: There is the Pit-Touched Wildblooded Bloodline to boost con if you want to be tankier. You would need GM approval as you can't normally take wildblooded bloodlines with Eldritch Heritage. Honestly not even sure he would allow EH in general, and if by raw you can't take the wild blooded ones I am 99% sure those won't be allowed.
One example on raw wording that he turned down was for Gloves of Dueling, he actually said it would work if i had stayed base Swashbuckler, but since i am going Inspired Blade, and the ability is now called "Rapier" Training it no longer works
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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
I'd vote for Warpriest. Your group is already melee-heavy and Warpriest offers some versatility that the Swashbuckler doesn't have.
Plus...built-in Quickened spellcasting! How cool is that!
Going by party analysis:
(Hammer) Damage dealers...check
(Anvil) Controllers...check
(Arm) Healing/buffer...*chirp chirp*
Forge of Combat wrote:
Groups without Arms Perhaps the most forgiving of the three major imbalances. These groups usually spend more resources than necessary to finish an encounter. When they don’t they exist on a razor’s edge where an enemies passed save or a characters failed save can mean the difference between failure and victory. This is much worse in groups that lack the means to magically heal themselves and are thus forced into shorter adventuring days or burning wealth on tons of cure light wound wands.
Rerednaw wrote: I'd vote for Warpriest. Your group is already melee-heavy and Warpriest offers some versatility that the Swashbuckler doesn't have.
Plus...built-in Quickened spellcasting! How cool is that!
Going by party analysis:
(Hammer) Damage dealers...check
(Anvil) Controllers...check
(Arm) Healing/buffer...*chirp chirp*
Forge of Combat wrote:
Groups without Arms Perhaps the most forgiving of the three major imbalances. These groups usually spend more resources than necessary to finish an encounter. When they don’t they exist on a razor’s edge where an enemies passed save or a characters failed save can mean the difference between failure and victory. This is much worse in groups that lack the means to magically heal themselves and are thus forced into shorter adventuring days or burning wealth on tons of cure light wound wands.
The Witch is going with an Archetype that gives it healing, and the Wizard is using the arcane discovery at 5th level that lets it copy from an alchemists book so he can get healing as well, the only thing the group doesnt have i don't think is a divine buffer, but as a WP i wouldn't be filling that roll anyways as i would probably be more of the front line and only fervoring to buff myself
StDrake wrote: As far as I remember there was a trait that let you use charisma for willsaves. No need to use up a whole feat + it wasn't 3rd party..if i could only remember the name.
I'd recommend swashy. There's nothing stopping you from taking con aboard and you have more fun and expandable ways to raise AC than relying on armor, although the house-ruled shield boon does make things more tempting
edit: found the trait - Irrepresible..admittedly that feat will be better, as the trait only applies vs charm and compulsion
Unfortunately as far as traits are concerned we only get 1 unless we take the additional traits feat (which i am not sure if it is going to be allowed), and that one trait is tied to premade backstories so we don't get to choose it
My stat array at this point for the Swash is 10, 21, 14, 16, 8, 18
so i have a decent con, and i have 36 HP, and a 22 AC for 4th level
I used my 7200 on a MW Rapier, Mithral Shirt, +1 Buckler, Handy Haversack, and Ring of Sustenance, and my free item was a circlet of persuasion
That sounds excellent. I don't know if it would fit the flavor of what you're looking for, but a vanilla Skald could be pretty nifty as a front line fighter, especially if you have a buddy doing front line stuff as well. Also, it'll double as a secondary caster like a bard (and will go up to 6 level in pretty much any spell list using its 1-3/day spell kenning)
If you're at all interested in the idea, I'll put some effort into brainstorming.
Did not read all the posts, but my vote is for Warpriest using a whip. You may pick any weapon (not just favored weapon) as your bonus WF. Additionally, the bonus combat feats allow you to pick up all the feats you will want.
Dafydd wrote: Did not read all the posts, but my vote is for Warpriest using a whip. You may pick any weapon (not just favored weapon) as your bonus WF. Additionally, the bonus combat feats allow you to pick up all the feats you will want. When you're using a whip, "all the feats you want" is a face-destroyingly long list. Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus, Whip Mastery, Improved Whip Mastery, Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Greater Trip, etc. Add Power Attack if you intend to do damage. The Whirlwind Attack line is enticing but oh-God-why so many more feats.
Warpriest, with its free Weapon Focus and the bonus feats, makes it less impossible to get the build online in a reasonable time. But it's still ridiculously feat-starved.
Feat starved? Everyone is feat starved, war priest is much less so.
1L Weapon Finesse
CB Weapon Focus Whip
RB Slashing Grace
3L Whip Mastery
CB Power Attack
5L Improved Whip Mastery
CB Combat Reflexes
Ok, so you will not be able to grab every feat in the book. However, you can still grab many of the ones you want. You are still waiting till level 3 to hurt undead, you are getting an area to provoke at level 5.
And this is only the feats you "need" to enable the build. You can add in trip or disarm at level 6, finishing the chain at level 7. You can even grab the other chain at level 9. However, since you do not need to be next to them to use those maneuvers, the feats are really only for the +4 and small additional bonus.
True, you are not taking "fun feats" till after level 5, but you are still online at the same time as a fighter using a whip, and at least 2 levels sooner then a whip using bard or magus.
Don't get me wrong, I love warpriest for whip builds, and it's on my list of builds I'd like to play. But, saying you can "pick up all the feats you will want" is an underestimation by any stretch of the imagination.
In your build, I see a couple issues. One, it requires worshipping a deity who has whip as the favored weapon (which is not unfeasible, but it's something you specifically called out as being unnecessary.) Otherwise, you need to either spend a feat on Exotic Weapon Proficiency, take a race with racial proficiency (which is de facto spending a feat,) or multiclass. Secondly, you cannot take Improved Whip Mastery at 5th level, as you need BAB +5 to qualify, and you can ONLY use warpriest level for BAB when taking bonus feats, not for normal feats. A more minor issue is that using Slashing Grace with Power Attack is not the best combo, as you're sacrificing the ability to two-hand the whip for extra Power Attack damage.
Here are some whip warpriest builds I've put together (taking Calistria as a deity for whip proficiency):
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted ** thanks for the advice builds that does sound like a fun interesting build just tripping everyone left and right, guess i've got some decisions to make before sunday
Whatever you decide, make sure you have a plan to deal with foes who can't be tripped. E.g. Giant spiders & harpies.
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Rodinia wrote: Whatever you decide, make sure you have a plan to deal with foes who can't be tripped. E.g. Giant spiders & harpies. Leaning toward swashbuckling at this point, I like the extra +9 to attack that they get without spells, plus I just watched Princess Bride last night and Inigo helped sway my decision
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