Summoned Creatures - What Can They Do When Dead?

[Peshmonster]

From the magic section of the CRB it says that when summoned creatures die they "reform" for 24 hours. My question is what type of actions can they take while they are reforming? Are they conscious? Can they be communicated with?

[I'm Hiding In Your Closet]

Shave their backs with a rusty razor,
shave their backs with a rusty razor,
shave their backs with a rusty razor,
early in the morning!

What can you do with a summoned creature,
What can you do with a summoned creature,
What can you do with...whoops. Sorry.

In all seriousness, this is heavy-duty metaphysics you're looking into here, and I don't think there is a right answer. It would have to be a DM call.

Maybe they're temporarily in a state like 3.5 Pact Magic vestiges - it would be a cool curveball in the right campaign if it turned out they were beyond all reach EXCEPT to the party Binder, who didn't even realize they could do such a thing.

[Ragoz]

Probably none? It isn't alive (despite not being 'truly' dead) at the very least and is returned to its home in the mean time.

Are you trying to use divination magic of some kind to hear how they died or something?

[Peshmonster]

Ragoz wrote:

Probably none? It isn't alive (despite not being 'truly' dead) at the very least and is returned to its home in the mean time.

Are you trying to use divination magic of some kind to hear how they died or something?

Yes essentially. I am gearing up to play through Eyes of the Ten with my character and I find summon scouting very lucrative. Being able to tell how they perished would be invaluable in some situations. It's certainly not something I would wastes the groups time with at every turn, but an option. I just noticed there wasn't much on this topic and what "reforming" actually meant so I was curious.

[ryukadsgc]

Quote:

A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.

So you wouldn't be able to resummon that particular creature for 24 hours if you wanted intel from that creature, but in the meantime you could use spells like shield other or status to monitor the summon as it goes ahead, if it takes damage, you can have readied a action to dismiss the summon and then resummon it if it didn't go poof from that single hit.

Of course considering the short range of summon monster 25ft+ 5ft/cl its an expensive use of spells to enable this just to look into the next room.

Arcane eye might be more up your alley since it last 10mins/cl and can move around at 30 ft and is naturally stealthy as well. Or other divination spells.

[Sniggevert]

Talk to your GM, as this is something that's really not covered by the rules.

To my mind's eye, reforming means it's just some outer planar blob of protoplasm without sentience or form that can't be identified, contacted or communicated with until it actually IS something again.

However, as I said, it's not really covered by the rules, so your GM may imagine something entirely different.

[Peshmonster]

ryukadsgc wrote:

Quote:

A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower, but it is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can't be summoned again.

So you wouldn't be able to resummon that particular creature for 24 hours if you wanted intel from that creature, but in the meantime you could use spells like shield other or status to monitor the summon as it goes ahead, if it takes damage, you can have readied a action to dismiss the summon and then resummon it if it didn't go poof from that single hit.

Of course considering the short range of summon monster 25ft+ 5ft/cl its an expensive use of spells to enable this just to look into the next room.

Arcane eye might be more up your alley since it last 10mins/cl and can move around at 30 ft and is naturally stealthy as well. Or other divination spells.

Thank you for the reply ryukadsgc! I am specifically interested in the abilities of a summon while it is "reforming" however. I want to pursue this avenue directly.

[Ragoz]

You could try using different scrying spells to see what happens before it died in the first place. Maybe Irriseni Mirror Sight and putting a mirror on your summon? This would only cost you a 3rd level spell and is quicker than scrying to cast (cast the scrying spell then the summon).

[ryukadsgc]

Peshmonster wrote:

Thank you for the reply ryukadsgc! I am specifically interested in the abilities of a summon while it is "reforming" however. I want to pursue this avenue directly.

Well when its reforming perhaps you could try and talk to it with sending or use plane shift to go directly to its plane, but that would be really resource intensive when a divination spell or a magic item like gloves of reconnaisance can show what it is the next room over.

My own gut instinct would be to say nothing can happen while its reforming because its currently wobbly-planar matter reshaping itself.

But ask your gm as the final arbitrator of the table.