Changing Gods for Divine Casters


Pathfinder Society

Shadow Lodge

On the past gameday, one of my players asked about changing gods for his Warpriest. He said as far as he could tell, he would only need an Atonement. I and a couple of other GMs asserted it would most likely involve PP costs as well as he would be changing his Blessings. I told him I would look into it on his behalf.

Currently, PFS has no official rules for changing gods for Paladins, Inquisitors or Warpriests. There is an almost 5 year old post from Joshua Frost about Clerics changing gods. However, that post technically A) only specifically covers Clerics and B) is problematic post-Ultimate Campaign.

Ultimate Campaign:

A LN Cleric of Torag (LG) has seen the diabolic light and wishes to follow Asmodeus (LE). Per the linked post, he would pay 8 PP OR 3000 gp for an Atonement to switch gods. His Cleric powers would be restored and he would then get to choose 2 new domains and recalibrate his Channel from positive to negative.

The same LN Cleric of Torag has decided law and order is bunk and Groetus (CN) is the way to go, he would pay 2 PP OR 500 gp to switch to a legal worshipper alignment on top of the 8 PP OR 3000 gp for an Atonement to switch gods. He would then get to choose 2 new domains and could opt to recalibrate his Channel from positive to negative.

However, if his fellow Cleric of Torag had an epiphany and simply wished to change his both his domains while still worshipping the same Torag it would cost (10 × his level × 5) gp AND 5 PP per domain.

Assuming the clerics in the above examples were level 5:

Cleric switching from Torag to Asmodeus.
Gains: 2 new domains, changes channel
Cost: 8 PP OR 3000 gp

Cleric switching from Torag to Groetus, changes alignment
Gains: 2 new domains, can change channel
Cost: 10 PP OR 3500 gp

Cleric changing domains, keeps god
Gains: 2 new domains
Cost: 10 PP AND 500 gp
(if they worship a neutral god and want to change the channel, add another 5 PP and 250 gp for a total 15 PP AND 750 gp)

It is actually cheaper to abandon your God than shift your focus within their portfolio!

Unless I've missed something (which is possible), I believe we need an UPDATED explanation/ruling of how to switch Gods as a divine caster (and the associated costs) in the era of UC and ACG.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The rules for clerics in PFS pretty much serve any divine caster. Just interpolate and ignore as necessary for any other divine caster. Assume that the costs are the same either way.

Oracles are a big exception. They are not required to honor ANY deity. They can even elect to hate the deity of their mystery they think inflicted their powers and curse on them.

Exception 2: Characters who are not yet 2nd level can use the the 1st level rebuild rules as normal.

Shadow Lodge

LazarX, normally I would agree with you, HOWEVER as we run RAW, unless it specifically states to use the same rules as clerics, it doesn't count for a Warpriest. The linked post only refers to clerics.

Dark Archive

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Warpriest is a combination of Fighter and Cleric. Use the rules for Clerics and stop worrying about it.

Scarab Sages

Warpriests cast spells as a cleric and if they take cleric levels, the blessings must match domains.

The cleric rules for changing gods should apply to them.

However, you do have a point about changing gods being cheaper than the UC retraining rules.

Shadow Lodge

Victor, may I quote you from a different thread about a similar issue?

Quote:

Look, as PFS GMs, we're expected to stick with the Rules as Written. Even though it's dumb that a dwarven longhammer isn't in the hammer weapon group, it's rather disrespectful to expect the GM to make a special exception to the rules for you.

A GM is well withing their rights to invalidate what is probably a core part of your build. Save this build for a home game where you're GM can make a reasonable ruling, and play something else for PFS.

when the rules say something like "For the purpose of the fighter class's weapon training ability, weapon groups are defined as follows (GMs may add other weapons to these groups, or add entirely new groups)", in PFS the GM are not allowed to adjust things like it suggests. Because you're not going to have the same GM every time, there are some sacrifices you are going to have to make in order to be able to play your characters at any PFS event in the world.

I'm just trying to play on the straight and narrow here. PP costs are a built in limiter when it comes to retraining and also can adversely affect a possible Raise Dead if gp is in short supply.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sammy T wrote:
LazarX, normally I would agree with you, HOWEVER as we run RAW, unless it specifically states to use the same rules as clerics, it doesn't count for a Warpriest. The linked post only refers to clerics.

The warpriest is a fighter/cleric. How many times does it have to say so in the class distinction before you stop overthinking. Using the rules for clerics imposes the same cost on the warpriest as it would on a cleric.

PFS rules say we do have to abide by the text. They don't require us to be anal-retentive about it. Using the rules for clerics will not break your table, it won't unfairly advantage the character. And more important, unless someone's trying to rigg or break the game, the point is to do what is needed, so that the players and GM can get on with the fun part of this gig.

Liberty's Edge

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Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I am not sure of the confusion here, the rules for changing Deity are not Cleric specific.

Here is the FAQ

PFS FAQ wrote:

What determines if my character can be a “worshiper” of a deity?

As a character, you may choose to worship a single deity or pantheon (the “deity”). If you worship a pantheon, you do not count as worshiping every god in that pantheon; you must choose one deity from that pantheon for the purpose of gaining mechanical benefits.

Your character’s alignment must be within one step of that of the deity he or she worships. Any character with levels in a class that grants spells or other features from a specific deity must worship that deity.

A character may only worship one deity at a time; the character may change which deity she worships between sessions at no cost. If this change requires the character to change alignment, the character is required to pay for an atonement. Any element incompatible with the new deity no longer functions. These elements may be retrained at normal cost using the rules from Ultimate Campaign.

For example, a cleric of Desna with the Travel and Luck domains and the Butterfly Sting feat switches her worship to Shelyn. The cleric may still use the Luck domain because Shelyn grants that domain, but not the Travel domain or the Butterfly Sting feat, because worship of Shelyn does not grant access to those features.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Oh I see you are talking about the rules for retraining when Ultimate Campaign does not cover retraining for Warpriests for it's powers.


LazarX wrote:
They don't require us to be anal-retentive about it.

There's no need to be mean about it - it is a valid question, and frankly you don't get to decide where RAW ends. Give the OP a break, he came here for clarification and help, not to have someone tell him he's doing it wrong.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I would say the stuff that is Deity Specific just use the rules on page 189 of Ultimate Campaign.

So 5 pp per Class Feature and gp = 10 × your level × 5 (days required).


I agree - Ultimate Campaign provides rules for this, which supersedes Josh's post about how to handle it years ago.


Free alignment shift towards evil for eating a certain snack food during one scenario.....

Liberty's Edge

So no atonement?

Mike

Shadow Lodge

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Starfinder Superscriber
Qstor wrote:

So no atonement?

Mike

Per that FAQ, atonement is only necessary if you must change alignments to change deities.

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