Animate object scroll = I win

[Belabras]

I've had a couple of instances lately that left me thoroughly frustrated with the hardness rules. After some fuming it occured to me that I shouldn't be frustrated, I should be trying to use it to my advantage.

So a scroll of Animate Object is 1650gp. That and a hunk of rock or iron and you basically own any melee encounter for 11 rounds. Pay for a casting of permanence and your pet rock can play all day long.

Anything I'm not seeing here?

[mplindustries]

The fact tht hardness isn't really that big a deal?

Stone has, what, Hardness 8, right? A level 1 Greatsword wielder with 18 Strength and Power Attack deals 2d6+9 (16 average). Damage in Pathfinder is really high--hardness is awful if you're primarily an energy damage dealer, but it's not going to let you own melee.

[Kobold Catgirl]

Yes, a bit.

First, not to nitpick, but a scroll of Animate Objects is 1,650, not 1,065. Skipped a zero there.

Second, the short duration means you basically have to expend a scroll per combat, meaning around 5,000 gp per day (assuming about 3-4 combats in a day).

Third, Permanency will cost you a grand total of 17,350 gp and require you to track down an 11th-level cleric and a 14th-level wizard.

You'll get that level of spending money around ninth level, assuming the GM gives most of your loot in items rather than gold. A bit sooner if other party members are willing to contribute.

At that point, a Hardness of 10 is annoying, but not particularly threatening. And the moment someone comes along with a 3,000 gp weapon, you're totally screwed.

It's very expensive to get and pretty cheap to destroy.

[Kobold Catgirl]

That said, I'd love to see a spellcaster who went everywhere with his bodyguard, "Boris the Bouncing Rock".

[Kobold Catgirl]

Belabras wrote:

A small chunk of Mithral has hardness 15.

Alright, then add about 1,000 gp to the price I gave above. Not too big a deal, and not too big a difference when:

Adamantine wrote:

Weapons fashioned from adamantine have a natural ability to bypass hardness when sundering weapons or attacking objects, ignoring hardness less than 20 (see Additional Rules).

Plus, a level 9 orc fighter with a greatsword deals about 2d6+25 damage on two attacks a turn (24 Strength, PA, +2 weapon, Weapon Spec and Improved Weapon Spec). Every round, Boris will take about 36 damage, considering his AC ain't gonna be too hot. Boris has, what, 60 HP? I'm assuming he has at least 2 inches of thickness, though don't forget that his price gets higher as he gets thicker since mithral/adamantine aren't cheap.

Then imagine that the word gets out about Boris, and someone decides to buy a weapon or two of adamantine. Again, costs about a quarter what Boris cost, and it's not gonna go down half as fast as Boris will.

[Rynjin]

Obviously what you need to do is bide your time, save your money until 20th, when you can buy a hunk of adamantine with all of your WBL up to that point.

Nobody will laugh at Boris then. MUAHAHAHAHAHA!

I'd price it up for you but there's no convenient pricing guide for Adamantine per pound or by inches that I can find.

Hmm. Let's take a crack at it, at least.

An Adamantine Dagger weighs 1 lb, and is around 1" in width. We'll call that the thickness.

So, around 3000 gp per inch.

You have 880k to work with, so you can buy roughly 293 inches worth of adamantine.

That gives you rock buddy weighing nearly 300 lbs, with Hardness 20 and 11, 720 HP.

Take that!

[Kobold Catgirl]

Nice HP, but how much damage is he dealing? :P

[Rynjin]

I have no clue. I've never looked at the Animate Object spell before, but now that I do, it doesn't list any sort of damage for the objects, or what they attack WITH, and whatnot.

I'd assume not much, a Huge slam for like 1d8 damage, no modifiers, probably.

But you can use it as a virtually unbreakable door block, so there's that.

Be really good for dropping on people from high places though. Drop it from 150 feet up and it'll do 12d6 damage.

[Belabras]

First, sorry Kobold, you keep replying to stuff while I'm editing.

Second, according to rules presented in the Carrion Crown path, you stat the object out a bit like an eidolon - here

[_Ozy_]

Rynjin wrote:

I have no clue. I've never looked at the Animate Object spell before, but now that I do, it doesn't list any sort of damage for the objects, or what they attack WITH, and whatnot.

I'd assume not much, a Huge slam for like 1d8 damage, no modifiers, probably.

But you can use it as a virtually unbreakable door block, so there's that.

Be really good for dropping on people from high places though. Drop it from 150 feet up and it'll do 12d6 damage.

At least he would be pretty good at punching through DR. :)

[boring7]

As stated by Belabras, it becomes an animated object creature, as per the bestiary entry, the rules are fairly vague and generic on purpose because animated objects are meant to be a catch-all construct for everything that isn't a golem. Stats are based on size, size is limited by caster level.

At a glance:
-Crap for hit points. No con score and a d10 means even the biggest bashers are kinda squishy.

-Hardness is expensive. Hardness 8 stone is your best bet just because mithral and adamantine are expensive (500 and 1000 per pound, if memory serves, not to mention the price in "construction points").

-Low damage. Constructs have lousy saves, BAB, and damage dice. A big ol' construct that manages to have a whole lotta hit dice is still swinging d8 or 2d6, and doesn't fit inside doors or hallways.

-Harder to fix. They don't heal naturally, and magical healing is limited. In-combat healing is not an option at all.

-Dispellable. If you used permanency, one bad day means your ~20k gold is gone and you have a big heavy rock in the way. If you used the alternative crafting rules to make it a construct creature which cannot be dispelled, it was a LOT more expensive.

An animated object is a decent blocker, has some nice utility powers, and can really bolster certain situations, but it's no show-stopper. Let's say you can make a huge one "work" in all situations, because you have shrinking magic for the doors or stay outside all the time. It's made of Stone for the cheapness. Its AC means most attacks will hit it. Its reflex save is +0, one created pit and it's gone for quite a while.

[Ms. Pleiades]

Boris, the Irrisen Love-Rock.

[blackbloodtroll]

ADAMANTINE CHAIN, PRICE 3,030 GP
WEIGHT 2 lbs.
This 10-foot-long chain has hardness 20 and 6 hit points. A
successful DC 30 Strength check is required to burst it, making
it strong enough to hold many types of giants.

[DeathMvp]

In my current game the summoner has made his pet look like this (stone Golum look). The only thing his is wife (another player) makes the pet ware a pink apren and clean like crazy as she say inn need the be clean for her to sleep in them.

So just imagin a 7' tall stone golum looking thing with big strong arms walking into a inn in a pink apron start dusting things for the guys wife can rent a room.

[boring7]

To take it further, hardness hurts like heck to low-level enemies and things that do less burst damage. The 20-attacks-a-round crazy knife build that does 1d4+5 damage is completely useless against a monster with hardness, but the bog-standard barbarian with a greataxe goes to town. Right now I have a party in Iron Gods getting slapped around like red-headed stepchildren because so many enemies have hardness 10 for a gang of level 4s. Next session they're going to have had the time/opportunity to buy adamantine arrows (well, arrow, but abundant ammunition is still a thing).