Hi guys!
I was wondering if there is outhere some kind of list made by the people who know well the game about the good/best archetypes for each class?
I know there are the class guides, but a lots of them don't consider all the gaming material or are outdated (which I understand perfectly, it's a lots of work!)
So is there some kind of "the best" archetypes? We are not power player in my group (just a few multiclassing, always a lots of roleplay, etc...) but we really like options. It's even more true since the release of the new Advanced Class Guid.
Today, when I want to build a warrior or a barbarian I'm like totally lost between my books, my pdf, and Pathfinder SRD. Too much options, and too much bad option that I can miss (like that archetype seems fun and... no it's lame but you're already level 8 so too late...)
Anyway I'm looking for a general guid with a good, short and complete list of good option.
This is much too broad of a request. What is it that you want to do? As an extreme example, Invulnerable Rager is a great barbarian archetype for a typical, super strong and tough barbarian, but it's awful if you want to bea finesse/gunslinging barbarian because that requires Savage Technologist, which is incompatible with Invulnerable Rager.
Before even a remotely usable answer to this request can be made, more information about, specifically, what you want to do is required.
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Rule 1 when I start theory-crafting a character:
Start with what I want, not what's mechanically good. There are enough options out there for nearly any build that you can optimize a concept. However trying to start by getting "The Best" archetype is going to lead you in circles. There are enough variables outside of your character such as your party and campaign that determining "The Best" archetype first is bringing in the wagon cart first.
I'll optimize the **** out of a build once I have an idea, and I'll draw on things from six books just for level 1, but I start with what I want my character to be and do.
This is much too broad of a request. What is it that you want to do? As an extreme example, Invulnerable Rager is a great barbarian archetype for a typical, super strong and tough barbarian, but it's awful if you want to bea finesse/gunslinging barbarian because that requires Savage Technologist, which is incompatible with Invulnerable Rager.
Before even a remotely usable answer to this request can be made, more information about, specifically, what you want to do is required.
Not really something precisely, I was looking for a "must-have" list. Something to reduce the number of options to a list of great archetypes for each class. But like you said, it probably depends for each character.
Rule 1 when I start theory-crafting a character:
Start with what I want, not what's mechanically good. There are enough options out there for nearly any build that you can optimize a concept. However trying to start by getting "The Best" archetype is going to lead you in circles. There are enough variables outside of your character such as your party and campaign that determining "The Best" archetype first is bringing in the wagon cart first.
I'll optimize the **** out of a build once I have an idea, and I'll draw on things from six books just for level 1, but I start with what I want my character to be and do.
Ok I think I'll go this way! THanks for the advice.
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Most of the class guides mention good archetypes. I can't give you a list for everything, but here is the good list for classes I know:
Fighter: Lore Warden, Brawler.
Cleric: Evangelist
Monk: Qinggong, Martial Artist, Far Strike, Zen Archer, Sensei, Hungry Ghost
Swashbuckler: Inspired Blade, Whirling Dervish
Inquisitor: Sanctified Slayer, Sacred Huntmaster
Druid: Cave Druid, Storm Druid, Nature Fang, Goliath Druid
Magus: Kensai, Hexcrafter
Warpriest: Sacred Fist
Very incomplete list:
Druid: Saurian Shaman, Lion Shaman, Menhir Savant
Rogue: Knife Master, Scout, Thug
Gunslinger: Musket Master
Summoner: Master Summoner, Synthesist
Swashbuckler: Inspired Blade
Thanks, that was that kind of thing that I was looking for.
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Also keep in mind that some of the best classes may be the Vanilla version. While there are a lot of cool bard archetypes (dervish dancer, archaeologist, arcane duelist) my favorite is still the standard bard.
I love the Tattooed Sorcerer, but I also like some of the wild-blooded bloodline variants -- Sylvan provides an animal companion, Sage changes intelligence to the casting stat, Empyreal uses wisdom as the casting stat. Depending on what you might want to do, any of these could be excellent.
There are two excellent Oracle archetypes (sadly, they can't be stacked):
1) Dual-Cursed: More revelations! Access to the misfortune ability!
2) Spirit Guide: Casting and revelation flexibility -- fun!
Hmm
Hi guys!
I was wondering if there is outhere some kind of list made by the people who know well the game about the good/best archetypes for each class?
I think everyone here has touched on how counter-productive a "best" guide of archetypes would be. Theory-crafting is picking a thing, and then pursuing it to make it the most powerful that it can be in its chosen aspect while minimizing its blaring weaknesses.
Your better option is to ask what archetypes are traps that you should avoid like the plague. However, in the end it really boils down to what exactly you are attempting to achieve and the reality that if you're not power-gaming then everything is, theoretically, equally viable.
So, to recap: how good an archetype is—so long as it isn't a trap—is dependent on your ambitions with the character you are planning on building and how many ranks you intend to put into your chosen archetype(s).
So nice options are:
Kensai: Magus—If you are prepared to accept some glaring weaknesses you can gain an unhittable AC (60+) so long as your dex-bonus applies. Remember, the bonus from INT is a DODGE bonus thereby making Celestial Armor a possibility. Not only that but you can deal decent damage with a sufficiently high enough dex. This archetype is all about avoidance, power and speed, and on top of that you want to layer your defenses—you want displacement or blur and mirror image whenever you are in combat, therefore making Craft Wondrous Item a possibility since this is also dependent on getting headband of Int +6 and Belt of Incredible Dex + 6 asap.
Arcane Duelist: Bard—If you have a love of bards this is the combat variant that murders things. It takes the supporting class that is the bard, and implements a greater focus on martial offense. You still will not be as effective as a Barbarian, Cleric, Sorcerer or Wizard, but if you're a bard you know that already. Plus, you're a BARD, the social god of the game. If you decide you want to use strength weapons take a rank in a lunar oracle to allow your CHA to stand in for your Dex in terms of AC and you can dump dex to favor strength while maximizing Cha. On the plus side you get your grubby hands on some "free" spells from the Oracle side that you do not normally have.
Occultist: Arcanist—Essentially a Summoner who lacks the Eidolon and the ability to have more than one summon out at a time, but instead has a full Wizard casting list. Your summons, through your spell like ability, last 1-minute/level, which basically means you can easily have a summon up for each fight. Spell cannibalization allows you to combine eldritch points from lower level spells to cast higher level summons. If you could, say, cast level 9 spells, you could turn 9 level 1 spells into 9 points and summon a level 9 monster. Fully compatible with the summons buffing feats, so go nuts.
Vivisectionist: Alchemist—Has rogue Sneak-Attack while retaining alchemist casting and abilities. If you ever wanted to play a rogue then this is your ticket to doing just that as a far superior class.
Witch guard: Ranger—This allows you to gain some interesting feats, but what it also allows you to do is gain Animate Undead if you select the right patron. If you ever wanted to have an army of bloody burning 1hd skeletons following you around and tanking for you then this is what you want, of course you get that around level 13 so expect the skeletons to more or less be useless or do minimal damage.
Synthesist: Summoner—No list of powerful archetypes is complete without this. The synth is easy to optimize, quick to grow in power and best of all it is quite resilient. Of course the standard summoner is better in terms of action economy and Ring of Regeneration stacking, but hey, you can't have your magical suit of armor protect you while being completely separate from you.
Master Summoner: Summoner—Did you ever want to have an extremely weak eidolon that has specialized uses while being able to summon your hordes? This archetype is useful because of some exploits in the system, such as mixing Sacrifice (lose up to 2hp per HD to heal target 1/2 of lost HP) with Fast Healing (Gain fast healing 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5). Effectively this turns you into the party cleric at level 11 as your eidolon can fully heal the party after each fight, thereby saving the Cleric's spells. However, your Edidolon is crippled, making you into a one-trick pony. Then again, if you go with Quadruped you can use him as a mount, even commanding him to run up to injured party members, hold his action until they jump on his back and then move to safety.
Either way you should remember that if you want to be the "best" you can be in the system in going the Aasimar Eldritch Knight build is going to give you the best results—full 9th level casting, early archetype access at level 3 due to Daylight, and the ability to mix with prestige classes such as Mystery Cultist or Hellknight Enforcer for maximum spellcasting potential. You're effectively a level 18 or 19 Wizard or Sorcerer with the ability to stomp on people in melee. Throw in a level in Lunar Oracle and you can dump dex in place of Cha. Mix it Paladin/Lunar Oracle/Sorcerer/Eldritch Knight/Hellknight Enforcer or Mystery Culstis and you end up with power characters that can stomp the competition. Just keep in mind that being able to walk up and say, "Well, I win," isn't exactly the most fun unless you have a GM that is challenging you in that department.
Zen archer monk