Call Out feat

[NikolaiJuno]

Call Out says you enter a dual. That is very vague. What does that mean exactly?

[Imbicatus]

NikolaiJuno wrote:

Call Out says you enter a dual. That is very vague. What does that mean exactly?

It is specifically using the Duel rules in Ultimate Combat.

[NikolaiJuno]

Thank you.

[Ascalaphus]

It's a really weird feat. The person you call out can't just end the duel for a couple of rounds, which means... what?

I mean, UC spells out that duels usually have some rules. What happens if you're Called Out, then break those rules? For example, neither side is supposed to get outside help. What if the Feat-owner gets outside help? What if the callee gets help?

UC wrote:

A duel is a form of combat, but unlike ordinary combat, the participants must all agree to willingly enter the duel and abide by its rules. If either side breaks the rules, that side is considered the loser of the duel, regardless of any other outcome, and if its members continue aggressive action, the fight continues using the standard rules for combat.

...

The types of weapons that can be used in the duel are agreed upon before the duel begins. Typical restrictions include only using melee weapons, ranged weapons, unarmed (or natural) weapons, magic, or any combination of these. The rules of a duel may require all duel participants to use the same weapon or types of attacks. This is especially the case in duels that require swords, spells, or firearms. Absent any such rules, any type of weapon is permissible.

So if you're Called Out, do you get to have any input on these rules? Because then you could just specify some rule that you can quickly break, like this duel will only use rapiers, and then you proceed to attack with your axe. And so the duel ends. Or does the feat then magically turn your axe into a rapier?

[Athaleon]

All I could think of was some guy going "You just been called out mate! Pistols at Now! Don't have one? Too bad!"

[NikolaiJuno]

Looking at it I would say bare bones Dueling rules. No weapon restrictions. Dueling rules as far as I can tell allow outsiders to act upon the duelists, but the duelists can not take any actions that effect anyone outside the duel without including someone in the duel as well.

A Cleric could call out someone then channel energy to its party members, as long as it's also channeling to itself.

The character that starts the duel may end it at any time by breaking the base rules, but the Called Out character may not until the duration expires. After it's expired he's free to do whatever he wants with no penalty. There's no innate penalty for ending a duel.

[Claxon]

Yeah...I'm not sure this feat even makes sense.

They may not withdraw from the duel, but nothing stops them from breaking the terms of the duel. And they certainly don't have to agree to your terms....it just doesn't make sense.

Reading this feat it's just far to meta for me. It would be much better if instead of what it does it did something more along the lines of:

The creature must come to terms and agree to duel with you or be shaken and ....(I don't know what, but as it's currently written I just wouldn't allow it in game because it doesn't make sense).

[Imbicatus]

It's too bad that it's such a mess mechanically because it really cool to be able to go "You wanna fight? Fight me!"

[NikolaiJuno]

I think that any action that would end the duel simply could not be taken by the target or his allies.

I was mistaken in my previous post about outsiders being able to act. They wouldn't.

The duel would end if the initiator or his allies broke the core dueling rules(outside help, or actions that solely target those outside the duel) or if the target or his allies do the same(but only after the duration has expired).
After the duration has expired the participants and there allies could continue to honor the duel if they so choose, but need not choose to.
This isn't strictly RAW by any means(good luck finding a closer to RAW interpretation), but I think it's an appropriate RAI interpretation.

[Claxon]

It's not even really an appropriate interpretation for rules as intended.

You're interpretation would mean that it's possible to challenge a wizard (for instance) to a sword fight and he's not allowed to refuse or use magic. That's far too meta an effect and I don't think that such an effect is intended at all.

The feat just leaves too much unsaid to be usable.

The only thing I can actually see this doing is forcing an enemy to include you in every offensive action they take or their self in any defensive action they take (buffing) for the number of rounds specified.

Which would actually make it good for "tanking".

[NikolaiJuno]

Claxon wrote:

You're interpretation would mean that it's possible to challenge a wizard (for instance) to a sword fight and he's not allowed to refuse or use magic.

That is not my interpretation. The base rules of a duel state no limitations on allowed fighting styles(with the possible exception of companions/familiars and summoned creatures, which I would say require a GM ruling). Any combat limitations are agreed upon(by both parties)before the duel.

The wizard in your example has not agreed to fight without spells, therefor is not required to fight without spells.

[Ascalaphus]

As I understand it, "withdrawing" from a duel means gracefully surrendering. It's not the only way to end a duel; if you blatantly cheat, the duel also ends/transforms into normal combat (and you're also considered the loser of the duel).

In the case of this feat, there's not really any penalty for "losing" the duel. Basically, what happens is that a PC calls out an NPC to enter a duel, dramatic music plays, and suddenly both persons can use stuff like Dueling Parry. Some people have special abilities that interact with that. Then the NPC goes "hey, this is totally not to my advantage", attacks a random bystander, which ends the duel due to clear breach of the default rules. There's some booing and hissing from beyond the fourth wall. And then life goes on.