| StephenH |
I'm making a villain for an adventure, and I'm curious what other people think will happen with some stacking effects. This villain will be wielding a +2 Furious Courageous weapon while raging.
For reference, furious says
"When the wielder is raging or under the effect of a rage spell, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than normal"
and courageous says
"...any morale bonus the wielder gains from any other source is increased by half the weapon's enhancement bonus (minimum 1)."
So, what bonus is applied to the various morale effects (rage bonuses, bardsong, etc.)? Is it +1, which is half of the base enchantment; or is it +2, based on half of the final enhancement bonus?
| -Grijm- |
+2 Furious Courageous will count as a +4 weapon when raging which increase any morale bonus effects by +2
For further discussion, would the morale bonus go up if a friendly caster cast +4 Greater Magic Weapon? Would the Furious enchantment then increase the enhancement bonus to +6? If you were to trigger a Bane weapon enchantment, would that further increase the morale bonuses?
If you have greater magic weapon +4 which is enhancement bonus, it does not stack with any enhancement bonuses the weapon already has.
I vaguely recall something about magic weapons not able to exceed a certain bonus level, so it might just turn out to be +3 furious courageous. But don't quote me on this.
| Ashiel |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Greater magic weapon grants the weapon itself an enhancement bonus with the caveat that it cannot bypass DR. Effects that reference a weapon's enhancement bonus can benefit from greater magic weapon.
In Pathfinder (unfortunately) GMW also counts against the total effective enhancement bonus of the item (so you have a +1 sword with +5 worth of special abilities, GMW cannot make its total higher than +10, but it's your best guess as to which ability trumps). Other effects such as a Paladin's weapon bond is pretty much the same. There was no such limitation in 3.x however (so if you found a +1 keen speed weapon, a +6 equivalent, you could make it a +5 keen speed weapon with GMW).
It's a pretty needless nerf to martials but it won't come up much in general because +10 weapons are never worth their cost anyway so you're better off just getting cheap +1 weapons with one or two special abilities.
When using a bane weapon (which ups the bonus by +2 vs a specific foe) the courageous weapon would be a little more potent during the attack (which might help if you're benefiting from heroism or something to get a teeny bit more accuracy during the hit).
| StephenH |
Greater magic weapon grants the weapon itself an enhancement bonus with the caveat that it cannot bypass DR. Effects that reference a weapon's enhancement bonus can benefit from greater magic weapon.
In Pathfinder (unfortunately) GMW also counts against the total effective enhancement bonus of the item (so you have a +1 sword with +5 worth of special abilities, GMW cannot make its total higher than +10, but it's your best guess as to which ability trumps). Other effects such as a Paladin's weapon bond is pretty much the same. There was no such limitation in 3.x however (so if you found a +1 keen speed weapon, a +6 equivalent, you could make it a +5 keen speed weapon with GMW).
It's a pretty needless nerf to martials but it won't come up much in general because +10 weapons are never worth their cost anyway so you're better off just getting cheap +1 weapons with one or two special abilities.
When using a bane weapon (which ups the bonus by +2 vs a specific foe) the courageous weapon would be a little more potent during the attack (which might help if you're benefiting from heroism or something to get a teeny bit more accuracy during the hit).
Rage bonuses are morale bonuses, which makes Courageous especially good for barbarians.
To clarify, I'll use the most outrageous example. Say you had a +1 Furious Courageous Human Bane sword, and you had your wizard buddy cast +4 Greater Magic Weapon. If you raged out and hit a human with this weapon, would you have a total effective +8 enhancement, and a +4 to any morale effects for the purposes of hitting that poor guy? (So your rage would give you 4 more strength, and your bard buddy would be granting an additional +4 weapon hit and damage, along with the huge weapon enhancement bonuses?)
| Ashiel |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ashiel wrote:Greater magic weapon grants the weapon itself an enhancement bonus with the caveat that it cannot bypass DR. Effects that reference a weapon's enhancement bonus can benefit from greater magic weapon.
In Pathfinder (unfortunately) GMW also counts against the total effective enhancement bonus of the item (so you have a +1 sword with +5 worth of special abilities, GMW cannot make its total higher than +10, but it's your best guess as to which ability trumps). Other effects such as a Paladin's weapon bond is pretty much the same. There was no such limitation in 3.x however (so if you found a +1 keen speed weapon, a +6 equivalent, you could make it a +5 keen speed weapon with GMW).
It's a pretty needless nerf to martials but it won't come up much in general because +10 weapons are never worth their cost anyway so you're better off just getting cheap +1 weapons with one or two special abilities.
When using a bane weapon (which ups the bonus by +2 vs a specific foe) the courageous weapon would be a little more potent during the attack (which might help if you're benefiting from heroism or something to get a teeny bit more accuracy during the hit).
Rage bonuses are morale bonuses, which makes Courageous especially good for barbarians.
To clarify, I'll use the most outrageous example. Say you had a +1 Furious Courageous Human Bane sword, and you had your wizard buddy cast +4 Greater Magic Weapon. If you raged out and hit a human with this weapon, would you have a total effective +8 enhancement, and a +4 to any morale effects for the purposes of hitting that poor guy? (So your rage would give you 4 more strength, and your bard buddy would be granting an additional +4 weapon hit and damage, along with the huge weapon enhancement bonuses?)
Yep. It's pretty awesome. ^_^
| StephenH |
So wait, guy with courageous +4 who gets +3 from bless, you tell me he gets +4 when using bane? Never thought they stack.
Courageous is kinda funny - it changes your existing morale bonuses, so it's not really "stacking". It increases all your existing morale bonuses, but would give nothing at all if you don't have any morale bonuses to begin with.
I'd treat it as an untyped bonus to existing morale bonuses, similar to enhancement bonuses to natural armor bonuses. I'd say it wouldn't stack with itself, though, due to rules about stacking bonuses from the same named source.
| StephenH |
So wait, guy with courageous +4 who gets +3 from bless, you tell me he gets +4 when using bane? Never thought they stack.
Oh, hey, I misunderstood your question. I was just talking general stacking rules - you were asking the same thing I was!
So, in short - I'm not entirely certain if bane increases the courageous bonus on bless. It seems plausible, though, and it sounds like the general consensus on the boards is that it does?