Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
I posted this on the Alpha forums, but also figured I would post this here:
So the resource numbers have settled down for a bit now and I was again curious what folks are finding not enough of, too much of, etc. Note I am not really concerned with things you have to walk a bit to find, such as coal or gold, but more when people can't find a given resource at all.
Also are there hexes where certain node types feel too prevalent? Are there not enough scavenging nodes in woodland hexes, or too many in the cropland hexes?
Haven't noticed too much in the way of this other than getting too much oak when I am looking for pine.
One thing I observed when Nihimon gave me Valkner's apothecary stuff is that you have done a good job making sure that there is an excess of Flammable and Soothing both in terms of mats that can meet those needs as well as in terms of actual drop rates. But that is all old data since those mats were gathered long before Alpha 11.
Otherwise, I can't really say I have noticed anything overtly troublesome. Finding a hex with middens that drop pelts is still tough. Wool, Cotton and Hemp are easy to find. Essences are also easy to find now that I know where to look for each. I dunno. I might just be happy that every time I click on a node it actually gives me something again- that brief period of deceptive nodes was scarring.
If there is anything askew still, it is likely in the Apothecary mats- but since no one really uses those besides a handful of us Alchemists in the game, it may take a while before we can really identify issues finding those mats.
Nodes per hex seem pretty good now. I've noticed that hexes that should have middens now have an abundance of them, but not an overwhelming amount.
Hope this was helpful.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
TEO has found, even when walking up north, that a few key resources are still rather hard to find.
Beast, Creature, Monster Pelts
Both Weak and Moderate Adhesives
Dyes are still hard to come by
We use Lodestone, Iron, Coal, Silver, Copper, Gold, all T1/T2 Essences, all Gems, weak/moderate acidic, adhesive, flammable, all woods, and all fabrics.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I have just started the gathering again and the only thing so far is the same as earlier, with Forestry 7 I get T2 stuff no one uses (will not be a problem in EE when we get there I imagine) but it makes it almost impossible to get enough of adhesives for my Varnish production (and tanglebag production I can just forget), Flammables and acidics I can complement with thrasheaps and minings (salvages is even between the three) ... I really want to scrap that level 7 until I actually find a T2 apothecary receipt...
Hmm.. adhesives *are* rare relative to their demand, and always have been. Personally, I am comfortable with this. But that is just me.
There are two main sources of adhesive: Neversleep Sap (also highly valuable as a stimulant) and Bloodflower Gum (I think that was it). The sap is in forest hexes while the flower is in Mountain hexes.
Acidics are also pretty common thanks to the plethora of items that count as weak acidic (in T1, anyways).
Sanguine was the big limiter I found when crafting up all of my healing potions, etc.
|
Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Will resources at some point be tied to the proper in game object ie pine from pine trees oak from oak trees? Obviously not important just wondering if theres a pl;an to do that at some point.
Maybe someday, but we have a lot of higher priority things on the list (the harvesting/gusher system being the big crafting one).
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Will resources at some point be tied to the proper in game object ie pine from pine trees oak from oak trees? Obviously not important just wondering if theres a pl;an to do that at some point.Maybe someday, but we have a lot of higher priority things on the list (the harvesting/gusher system being the big crafting one).
I guess I can settle for "maybe" though "probably" would be nice
Hmm.. adhesives *are* rare relative to their demand, and always have been. Personally, I am comfortable with this. But that is just me.
There are two main sources of adhesive: Neversleep Sap (also highly valuable as a stimulant) and Bloodflower Gum (I think that was it). The sap is in forest hexes while the flower is in Mountain hexes.
Acidics are also pretty common thanks to the plethora of items that count as weak acidic (in T1, anyways).
Sanguine was the big limiter I found when crafting up all of my healing potions, etc.
Although Sanguine is also really easy to find in the mountains. Very common drop up there.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Hmm.. adhesives *are* rare relative to their demand, and always have been. Personally, I am comfortable with this. But that is just me.
There are two main sources of adhesive: Neversleep Sap (also highly valuable as a stimulant) and Bloodflower Gum (I think that was it). The sap is in forest hexes while the flower is in Mountain hexes.
.
I well aware of where the sources of adhesives and you missed my point. I was more refering tothe effect of increasing Forestry from 6 to 7 ... Eh!
Hmm.. adhesives *are* rare relative to their demand, and always have been. Personally, I am comfortable with this. But that is just me.
There are two main sources of adhesive: Neversleep Sap (also highly valuable as a stimulant) and Bloodflower Gum (I think that was it). The sap is in forest hexes while the flower is in Mountain hexes.
.I well aware of where the sources of adhesives and you missed my point. I was more refering tothe effect of increasing Forestry from 6 to 7 ... Eh!
Indeed I did and I agree with it completely.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I find that pelts are in short supply. They are supposed to drop in trash heaps in woodland, but the frequency of trash heaps in woodland is very low.
On the other hand, trash heaps on plains seem to be plentiful and I have cotton and wool coming out of my ears.
Yellow is always scarce it seems.
There is oak in the game?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
... with Forestry 7 I get T2 stuff no one uses (will not be a problem in EE when we get there I imagine) but it makes it almost impossible to get enough of adhesives for my Varnish production...
On the one hand, I feel sympathy for the new Player who doesn't realize that they'll have a much harder time getting Tier 1 Resources once they train to Tier 2 in a Gathering Skill.
On the other hand, I think it's very good to let higher level Gatherers avoid filling their bags with lower-Tier resources for two reasons: 1) they often won't need or want them; and 2) it creates a strong incentive for them to make use of lower-level Players who then have something interesting and productive to do.
I think the benefits of the latter significantly outweigh the drawbacks of the former.
Actually, yellow is rare but find-able. Green, on the other hand, is scarce to no end. I can't recall the last time I got some Greenweed from a forest node.
Kradlum's point about trash nodes is good. Would it be too much to have pelts drop in those nodes as well?
Lastly, @Nihimon's bit about higher tier gathers not filling their bags with fluff, thy don't have to hit the "take all" button. They can just take the items they want by clicking directly on them. However, since higher tier refining recipes still require T1 mats- and in increasingly greater amounts- I doubt higher tier gatherers will be skipping over the T1 mats all that much.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Lastly, @Nihimon's bit about higher tier gathers not filling their bags with fluff, thy don't have to hit the "take all" button. They can just take the items they want by clicking directly on them. However, since higher tier refining recipes still require T1 mats- and in increasingly greater amounts- I doubt higher tier gatherers will be skipping over the T1 mats all that much.
The most compelling reason, to me, to keep the current calculations for determining what you get from a node is that it creates an incentive for higher level Players to utilize lower level Players.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Lastly, @Nihimon's bit about higher tier gathers not filling their bags with fluff, thy don't have to hit the "take all" button. They can just take the items they want by clicking directly on them. However, since higher tier refining recipes still require T1 mats- and in increasingly greater amounts- I doubt higher tier gatherers will be skipping over the T1 mats all that much.
Doesn't matter. Repeated tests have confirmed that once you harvest, the node evaporates, regardless of whether you take everything (or anything) or not.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Some hexes are better than other for node distribution. I've had good pelts drops from trash heaps in some woodland hexes. Woodland critters like rabbits and squirrels and whatever, I guess. Trash heaps in plains more often drop textiles.
It seems a reasonable separation of resources, one that should encourage trade from one area to another, or drive conflict.
@ Nihimon, that is a valid point. However, low level players will be a minority in the game in the long term since they will generally move out of T1 within a month or 2. Also, this would incentivize high level non-gatherer players keeping their gathering skills at 6, potentially somewhat defeating the purpose of your point. Or just having "high-level" gatherers that keep their gathering at 6 so they can maximize their take of T1 mats. EDIT: Although, I am not sure that last potentiality is really a problem. Its just a form of specialization.
@ Caldeathe, I was thinking more about potential encumbrance issues with always clicking "take all."
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
@ Nihimon, that is a valid point. However, low level players will be a minority in the game in the long term since they will generally move out of T1 within a month or 2.
It also occurs to me that the problem might be short-lived. Isn't it mostly due to the fact that the T1 Resources are depleted while the T2 Resources aren't, resulting in a much higher probability of getting a T2 Resource? Once there are enough Characters harvesting all three Tiers of Resources, the probabilities should even out, shouldn't they?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I think that while a Gatherer character can get to Lv7/Tier2 with about 8 days xp, a lot of characters won't be primary gatherers or will just have 1 or 2 gathering skills at a high level. Those characters are still going to be harvesting Tier 1 stuff. (Perhaps any gushers they find will also be limited to Tier 1.)
I think that while a Gatherer character can get to Lv7/Tier2 with about 8 days xp, a lot of characters won't be primary gatherers or will just have 1 or 2 gathering skills at a high level. Those characters are still going to be harvesting Tier 1 stuff. (Perhaps any gushers they find will also be limited to Tier 1.)
Then there will be people like me that take two skills (scavenger and forester) to level 14 (T3) and Miner and Dowser to level 6. I don't know. We'll see how it works out in the long term. This might be one of those things that doesn't really sort itself out until a year into the game when we are approaching something like equilibrium for character ability distributions. EDIT: well, maybe a lot longer to approaching the equilibrium state of the game.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I find that pelts are in short supply. They are supposed to drop in trash heaps in woodland, but the frequency of trash heaps in woodland is very low.
I got really tired of the lack of pelts and by chance I found the excellent solution by a stroke of luck, with Nature 8 I harvests the Mad Druids Pack Warrior wolf. They drop pelts every third or fourth of them ...
I find that pelts are in short supply. They are supposed to drop in trash heaps in woodland, but the frequency of trash heaps in woodland is very low.I got really tired of the lack of pelts and by chance I found the excellent solution by a stroke of luck, with Nature 8 I harvests the Mad Druids Pack Warrior wolf. They drop pelts every third or fourth of them ...
I thought it was survival for that, but either way, those get heavy fast. But yeah, they work well, too.
Shambling Mounds!? I can't wait :)
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
However, low level players will be a minority in the game in the long term since they will generally move out of T1 within a month or 2.
You can always make an alt, level him up to 6 in all gathering skills, then return your primary to training. Seems to me that high-level crafters are likely to have low-level specialist alts just to grab raw materials and perform other basic functions.
|
Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
|
On the next update the beast and monster pelts will have increased their drop rates from nodes, as will adhesives. They will be found in all the same places they are already found. I increased the amount found in the game overall of both item types by 40%, so we'll see how much that ends up changing.
I'm still eyeing increasing the amount of blue stocks coming into game via nodes.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
However, low level players will be a minority in the game in the long term since they will generally move out of T1 within a month or 2.You can always make an alt, level him up to 6 in all gathering skills, then return your primary to training. Seems to me that high-level crafters are likely to have low-level specialist alts just to grab raw materials and perform other basic functions.
Or you could just do that on your main and get the benefit of the extra ability score bonuses + not having to log in another character to go fetch yourself something- Unless, of course, your main is already above level 6 in those things.
Or you could just hit up the Auction House and save the EXP for more important things.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
On the next update the beast and monster pelts will have increased their drop rates from nodes, as will adhesives. They will be found in all the same places they are already found. I increased the amount found in the game overall of both item types by 40%, so we'll see how much that ends up changing.
I'm still eyeing increasing the amount of blue stocks coming into game via nodes.
This is good so long as these fixes continue to keep the mats regional. If you can find them everywhere then trade goes right out the window.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
... when you harvest a node but do not take everything from the "loot" window that opens, are the items you don't take still deducted from the hex's total available loot?
I believe they are, and I'm pretty sure the devs have confirmed this. You also get the Achievement Points credit as soon as the window appears, regardless of what you take.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
... when you harvest a node but do not take everything from the "loot" window that opens, are the items you don't take still deducted from the hex's total available loot?I believe they are, and I'm pretty sure the devs have confirmed this. You also get the Achievement Points credit as soon as the window appears, regardless of what you take.
It is indeed confirmed and will change at some point in the future.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There are only a few game loops in the game right now and harvesting is something many people will do a lot of.
Is there a timeframe for replacing the "stroking air hands" animation with different animations that resemble the sort of node you are harvesting? e.g. pick axe for mining
Is it planned that there be any implements that you use for harvesting in the future? e.g. iron pick axe, adamantine pick axe
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I expect that is part of the five year plan, but it is unlikely to reach the top of the pile during the first year. Everything is prioritized, and there are a number of game mechanics that are essential to the long-term design goals that have higher priority. Things like multiple company management and settlement warfare are necessary in order to begin the true game. There are also a number of races and classes that people can't play and want to. Anything appearance-related that is not actually "broken" will likely be waiting more than a year.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I hope they properly weight "frustration factor" into their priority calculations. There needs to be an effective way to transfer entire stacks, or to split stacks into arbitrary sizes. Double-click fails far too often to be effective, that failure seemingly linked to the number of items in the buckets on either end of the transaction.
Nihimon and I have noticed that the swamp hexes near Hammerfall have an over abundance of Middens, with plant nodes being very rare. On the upshot, lots of pelts are dropping- practically raining, compared to everywhere else, actually. Especially with all the wolves around. On the downshot, there is virtually no chance of finding a large quantity indigo or woad in any kind of timely manner.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Sspitfire
Looks to me you have been in the wrong hex.
The Souther swamp is the most prevalent in regard to pelts - but it has the least plants of the four and no colors. I'm talking here 15% pelts overall (Beast, Creature, Monster) with 0% colours.
The three other ones are 7% pelts (no Monster !) and 9% colors. These are approximate numbers as I try to recreate Lee's tables. But I gathere enough in the swamp to be pretty confident in these numbers.
Yes - middens are more common in all 4 swamp hexes compared to plants.
To me it seems the number of nodes follows the total occurance of resources. I have seen hexes that have a 1:1:1 ratio middens,plants,sparks in the woods around EL but there are also other ones where the ratio is quite skewed. Just look at the number of plant nodes in the mountains around Brighthaven. Plants there are rare.
The idea is that all hexes have the same overall value of resources. But individual raw materials vary widely.
Not sure about the pelts, I'll have to let Nihimon speak to that. But the overabundance of middens in the primary source hexes for inks strikes me as a big issue, unless Lee truly means for the economy to be that pinched on Inks.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
From what I've read, it sounds like it's currently easier to find materials for holy symbols than spell books. I haven't read any comparisons to the ease of finding trophy charm* and rogue's kit materials. I assume the supply of materials is meant to be roughly the same for all four implements, but I suppose it could be used as a sort of balancing factor, if certain roles were seen as overpowered or overpopulated.
*Ever since I saw the icon for trophy charms, I can't help imagining a Pandora bracelet with a sterling silver goblin head, a 14k gold ogre fist, a tiny pewter minotaur's axe, etc.
"Did you know your fighter friend has explored the Emerald Spire?" "How do you know that, honey?" "I speak Pandora."
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
The Souther swamp is the most prevalent in regard to pelts - but it has the least plants of the four and no colors.
This is consistent with what I'm finding.
I kind of wonder, though, if the overabundance of Middens might be due to folks cherry-picking Plant nodes. I wonder if they coded it in such a way that, each time a new node spawns, there's a random chance of what type it will be based on the proportion of resources available in the hex. If that's the case, and folks cherry-pick Plant nodes, the hex will eventually become saturated with the most common node type and there will be very few of the cherry-picked nodes. I remember making a point about this style of seeding in the past, and how frustrating it is especially when you're the one doing the work of clearing out the common nodes to try to get more of the uncommon nodes to spawn while someone else is running around cherry-picking the nodes you worked so hard to spawn. I mean, yeah, you can kill 'em, but still...
Maybe one of the devs could speak to this?
[Edit] Found that older thread: Sadistic MMO Standard I Hope PFO Avoids
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
When I did the testing I tried to gather every node in sight - no matter if sparks or middens or plants and I tried deliberately not to prefer certain ones.
I also gathered until I had >30 of the most prevalent node.
Now here is the question that is rightly asked:
Hex x has
2000 pine
3000 herbs
1000 ore
250 gems
2500 Essence
Will the nodes be distributed 4:1:2 ?
What happens if middens are collected most? Will the distribution of nodes shift - and how?
Algorithm 1:
A new node is spawned relative to abundance - so if a midden node was picked and 2 resources taken this would be 5000:1248:2500
This would lead to certain nodes become less common.
Algorithm 1b:
Varient of 1) A new node is spawned relative to max abundance - so if a midden node was picked a new node would be spawned in the ratio 4:1:2
This would lead to certain nodes become less common.
Algorithm 2:
A midden node is picke - a new midden node is spawned
This would keep the abundance of different nodes the same,
When I checked the swamp I tried deliberately not to have an effect of nodes by preferring certain ones. But off course I can't rule out others doing so.
Algorithm 1 will drive distribution slowly back to the ratios as it becomes more and more difficult to pick node type A.
Algorithm 2 will avoid this problem but will make it more easy to completely take out one node type.
I can't say what is better.