I’ve been getting conflicting information at the tables

[ElterAgo]

I’ve been getting conflicting information at the tables.

A creature moves as a move action. Then gets a single attack as a standard action.

The question comes from single attack. Some people are telling me that both of the 2 talons of the Eagle or the 2 rays of the Lantern Archon are a single attack since they are not itteratives. Others are saying they will only get 1 talon or 1 ray.

Which is correct?

[Bronnwynn]

They get one. The only time - excluding very rare special abilties - that you can get multiple attacks is with a full attack action.

[Bob Bob Bob]

You only get one attack with a standard unless you have a rule saying otherwise.

Multiple Attacks wrote:

A character who can make more than one attack per round must use the full-attack action (see Full-Round Actions) in order to get more than one attack.

You'll notice it doesn't say natural attacks, manufactured attacks, two-weapon fighting, just "more than one attack".

[Lifat]

Making more than a single attack be it natural attacks or not is a full round actions. There are ways to get around that, for example with pounce where you get to make a full attack at the end of a charge.

[Bronnwynn]

Lifat wrote:

Making more than a single attack be it natural attacks or not is a full round actions. There are ways to get around that, for example with pounce where you get to make a full attack at the end of a charge.

Charge is almost always a full-round action. The only time it isn't is if your have Rhino Charge (and do it as a readied action) or during a surprise round, AFAIK.

[Lifat]

Bronnwynn wrote:

Lifat wrote:

Making more than a single attack be it natural attacks or not is a full round actions. There are ways to get around that, for example with pounce where you get to make a full attack at the end of a charge.

Charge is almost always a full-round action. The only time it isn't is if your have Rhino Charge (and do it as a readied action) or during a surprise round, AFAIK.

Charge is a full round action where you get to move up to twice your speed and make a single attack under normal circumstances as you say. But pounce is an ability that allows you to make a full attack at the end of the charge as I wrote in my previous post.

[ElterAgo]

Ok, that is what I always thought. But then I was told that for non-iterative attacks a type of attack counted as a single attack. So if the type of attack (say talons) had 2 then you got both of them.

I heard that from several people that I would expect to know the rules. the are experienced rules lawyers type of players. They are usually the go-to people in our local for resolving rules issues.

So then I started using that. Then all of a sudden everyone is clamoring that you can't do that.

{sigh}

[Ascalaphus]

Lifat's comment about Pounce is true, but maybe a bit confusing.

The general rule is that making more than one attack requires the Full Attack action, or some other similar action (like Flurry of Blows, Whirlwind Attack etcetera). These all require a full-round action.

Charging normally costs a full-round action to move up to double your speed and then make a single attack. If your turn is less than a full round (due to being Staggered or in a surprise round for example), you can do it as a standard action but move only 1x your speed.

Pounce is a weird ability normally found mostly on big cat critters and velociraptors, to charge AND make a full attack. Even if you're making that charge as a Standard action in the surprise round; that's pretty much what Pounce is meant for, that's how these animals normally hunt.

[Lifat]

ElterAgo wrote:

Ok, that is what I always thought. But then I was told that for non-iterative attacks a type of attack counted as a single attack. So if the type of attack (say talons) had 2 then you got both of them.

I heard that from several people that I would expect to know the rules. the are experienced rules lawyers type of players. They are usually the go-to people in our local for resolving rules issues.

So then I started using that. Then all of a sudden everyone is clamoring that you can't do that.

{sigh}

Normally you can make a single attack as a standard action untill you get 6 in base attack where you get itterative attacks. Then you can make more than 1 attack by taking a full round action to make a full attack.

Natural attacks and two-weapon fighting gets more attacks before base attack 6, but that doesn't change the requirement of taking a full round action to make a full attack.