Building a Kitsune for a PFS journey through the Emerald Spire. This character will likely be dedicated to Emerald Spire only. Which will carry me to level 14
Under the assumption that every feat i can take will be a new tail, looking for build advice within this constraint. Working with the dex/cha bonus of the kitune. Classes like a bard / ninja / swashbuckler / oracle / sorc. seemed to make the most sense. The pure casters seemed redundant, and not enough spare or extra feats. I think i decided on a weird multi-class hybrid.
base stats:
str 9
dex 18
con 12
int 10
wis 12
cha 16
Favored class bonus going into rogue trick. from levels 1 - 6 will play like a traditional twf ninja. 7 and beyond will use an ioun stone to get familiarity with the sawtooth sabre and dual wield that.
1)Swashbuckler (Swashbuckler Weapon finesse, parry/riposte)
2)Ninja (ki)
3)Ninja (Trick: TWF)
4)Ninja (+1 dex)
5)Ninja (Trick: Vanishing Trick)
6)Ninja
7)Ninja (Ioun Stone: familiarity - Sawtooth Sabre, Trick: Weapon Focus -Sawtooth Sabre),Trick: Slashing Grade - Sawtooth Sabre)
8)Ninja (+1 dex)
9)Sorc (Fey bloodline, eldrich scrapper [Martial Versalitiy])
10)Sorc
11)Eldrich Knight (Bonus feat: Improved Critical)
12)Eldrich Knight (+1 str)
13)Eldrich Knight
A little unsure about the sorc/EK levels. They give extra feats and versaltity while keeping to the core concept. Fairly flavorful as well. Brawler/fighter levels could do a similiar function. I am 'fairly' certain i would keep levels 1-7 as they are. But could be convinced otherwise. Another level of ninja would also be considered. No drop in BAB with an extra trick. Perhaps shadow clones.
I wish the nine-tailed Kitsune were more powerful, props for going with it for flavor.
My first trick would be Vanishing Trick and my second would be Rogue Talent: Offensive Defense.
I'd drop a point in Wis for a point in Str to help you feel less sucky early on.
The ninja really comes online at level 10 with Invisible Blade, why not stick it out until then?
After that, you could level in a variety of things:
Paladin would boost your to-hit with BAB and Smite (also nice vs DR). You'd also be less likely to get dominated and turned against your allies.
Bard could work with Kitsune flavor and do fine in light armor. The Arcane Duelist and Archaeologist archetypes are worth considering.
Oracle doesn't have to sweat the armor and has some fun options.
Summoner has a pretty good spell list, 3/4 BAB, and can handle light armor with no problems. You can use your summons/eidolon for utility since they probably won't be much use in melee combat.
A swashbuckler/paladin/ninja would have jaw-dropping saves and really make the most of that extra attack from spending ki.
Mortuum wrote: A swashbuckler/paladin/ninja would have jaw-dropping saves and really make the most of that extra attack from spending ki. I guess the downside is that your swift actions start to become a scarce commodity.
i do like the paladin aspect, and may incorporate in after my ninja levels, and push sorc back a bit. The reason i can't take vanishing trick first is then the character won't play (two weapon fighting) as i want it to play.
invisible blade is tempting, but then i don't get other feats, something i am sorely lacking.
though i just realized that ninjas nor rogues get TWF as a trick, I think my second or third level needs to be fighter, to get that feat early.
In my experience, TWF doesn't work well with a class without significant bonuses to attack and the armor/hp to stand their ground and trade full attacks.
Magical Tail gives you a lot of utility out of combat, so if I were you I would stick with a class that is very effective in combat (without feats) to have a balanced character. A Swashbuckler is an excellent choice - it leverages your high charisma and dexterity, provides flexible bonus feats, and aids your damage significantly with Precise Strike. (Note that Sneak Attack is a circumstantial ~1.75 dmg per level, whereas Precise Strike is a constant 1 dmg per level that can increase to 2 dmg per level with a swift action & use of panache.) It also lets you hand out debuffs with Menacing Swordplay and Targeted Strike.
Swashbucklers also have much, much better defensive options than ninjas. Opportune Parry and Dodging Panache make you unlikely to suffer the full brunt of a full attack (Dodging is really nice when a tiger pounces on you), and Charmed Life gives you Paladin-level saves on those save-or-die effects.
That said, a splash of 2 levels of Ninja for Vanishing Trick or a combat feat, some bonus skills, and 1d6 sneak attack is fairly reasonable. You really do want an Agile weapon or Fencing Grace asap.
That is something certainly worth considering. Abandoning the TWF for a single attack and become more swashbuckler. Inspired Blade swashbuckler would help with feats too.
Though i would say sneak attack is more then 1.75. 1.75 would be for a single attack. with TWF it would be 3.5. Of course there would be many times when one wouldn't be able to TWF.
I agree with the posters recommending swashbuckler, but offer also the option of slayer if you really want two weapon fighting sense they can get it as a talent from ranger combat styles.
One point of concern, with 14 levels being the cap, won't that leave you with only 8 tails? since unlike other kitsune feats, extra tail can only be taken with your level up feats, not class bonus feats.
i understand about the 8 tails. Perhaps i can get a 9th one day with the right module. The foundation is still "as many tails as i can get" though
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If you go ninja the entire way you can use your master trick at 10th level to get the 9th tail at 13th. Ninja isn't the strongest class, but with flurry of stars you have a decent ranged attack and vanishing trick will let you sneak attack often. I suppose as long as you fit 10 levels of ninja in a Swashbuckler/Ninja could be really good as well.
Nice catch! Sounds like we have a winner. 9 tails before the end of the path.
Thoughts on this
1 Swashbuckler, with 12 ninja (single rapier)
1 Swashbuckler, 10 ninja, 2 fighter levels mixed in (TWF w/ an extra feat in there somewhere)
1 Swash, 2 paladin, 10 ninja. Ultimate saves, use a ninja trick to get the bonus combat feat rogue trick for two-weapon fighting, if you really want that feat.
I've been theory crafting a kitsuni anti-paladin with all the tales as a late game villain in my campaign. I might have to rethink that.
Dot
The lone "trick-combat feat" needs to be in slashing/fencing grace.
That said, Swashbuckler 1, paladin 2, ninja 10 is certainly interesting. Wielding a rapier.
Agile weapon works just as well. Also, weapon finesse is a rogue talent so you could exchange swash for fighter to get two-weapon fighting. Yeah, you lose the cool swash abilities, but this is about damage output while charming all the bad guys.
huhm.. if this is pfs or a homegame with a nice dm. You should take a gander at occult classes. Mesmer (though this would lean towards caster more) or Kineticist can make for some amusingness, without too many outside feats (depending on what you wanna do)
some levels i nKineticist can net you "foxfire" like things. or potentially turning into a fire elemental who looks like a fox or something. though it would require retooling of stats if possible.
Mesmer is a bit heavier casting if your mostly ignoring feat slots. I'd snag inspired swash buckler or normal swash. (or if guns, that cha gunslinger archetype) then go with mesmer levels. It nets you some bonus damage, some amusing spells (dunno how dcs would end up though in the end)
Otherwise I would also support you going mostly swashbuckler or swashbuckler, into ninja or slayer. if you really like sneak attack
The 9-Tailed build works best with a class that doesn't require many feats. Spellcasting classes are good; you trade the ability to do metamagic tricks for more spell power in the sense that each feat essentially grants you two free spell slots that must be used to prepare a specific spell. (This is a gross oversimplification, but it works.) If you go the spellcasting route, you'll want to pick a class that can make use of the kitsune's bonus on enchantment spells and you'll likely want a class that uses Charisma, though it isn't a necessity. Witches and arcanists fit this role nicely, as do sorcerers and wizards.
If you're looking to play a martial character, you basically need a melee build because melee builds require the least amount of feats to be successful. Taking a class that possesses bonus feats (such as fighter or swashbuckler) works wonders, and swashbuckler synchronizes especially well with the kitsune's racial modifiers. The Magical Tail feat line focuses heavily on social magic and illusions, so picking a class like ninja or rogue that can best utilize those types of spells is also a smart move.
Do remember that since your adventure caps at 14th level, your character isn't likely to realize her full nine-tailed heritage. (Even if you threw all of your feats beginning at Level 1 at the concept, you'd cap at 7 feats at 14th level).
In order of best to worst, here are my Top 5 recommendations:
Spellcasting
1) Arcanist
2) Sorcerer
3) Witch
4) Wizard
5) Bard (Although kitsune make excellent bards, they often take a supporting role in melee because of their limited spells per day. You won't have the feats to make the bard's strengths worth your time if you devote yourself to the 9-tailed concept.)
Martial
1) Swashbuckler (Especially Inspired Blade)
2) Fighter (Especially Lore Warden with Martial Master)
3) Slayer (Especially Stygian Slayer)
4) Rogue (Especially Kitsune Trickster)
5) Monk (Only beaten by Rogue because of the Kitsune Trickster archetype.)
To add to the above list..
Brawler might be above monk, due to their ability to gain combat feats on the fly which would greatly suppliment how you can contribue in a straight up martial fight.
combined with kitsune pounce can be nifty
Alexander Augunas wrote: The 9-Tailed build works best with a class that doesn't require many feats. Spellcasting classes are good; you trade the ability to do metamagic tricks for more spell power in the sense that each feat essentially grants you two free spell slots that must be used to prepare a specific spell. (This is a gross oversimplification, but it works.) If you go the spellcasting route, you'll want to pick a class that can make use of the kitsune's bonus on enchantment spells and you'll likely want a class that uses Charisma, though it isn't a necessity. Witches and arcanists fit this role nicely, as do sorcerers and wizards.
If you're looking to play a martial character, you basically need a melee build because melee builds require the least amount of feats to be successful. Taking a class that possesses bonus feats (such as fighter or swashbuckler) works wonders, and swashbuckler synchronizes especially well with the kitsune's racial modifiers. The Magical Tail feat line focuses heavily on social magic and illusions, so picking a class like ninja or rogue that can best utilize those types of spells is also a smart move.
Do remember that since your adventure caps at 14th level, your character isn't likely to realize her full nine-tailed heritage. (Even if you threw all of your feats beginning at Level 1 at the concept, you'd cap at 7 feats at 14th level).
In order of best to worst, here are my Top 5 recommendations:
Spellcasting
1) Arcanist
2) Sorcerer
3) Witch
4) Wizard
5) Bard (Although kitsune make excellent bards, they often take a supporting role in melee because of their limited spells per day. You won't have the feats to make the bard's strengths worth your time if you devote yourself to the 9-tailed concept.)
Martial
1) Swashbuckler (Especially Inspired Blade)
2) Fighter (Especially Lore Warden with Martial Master)
3) Slayer (Especially Stygian Slayer)
4) Rogue (Especially Kitsune Trickster)
5) Monk (Only beaten by Rogue because of the Kitsune Trickster archetype.)
technically i would have capped at 8 tails at 13th level (you start with 1 baseline, putting in the first feat at first level starts you at 2). As was mentioned in this thread though, you can get a free bonus feat (no restrictions) with 10 levels of ninja. Thus completing the set of tails by the end.
Due to this, 1 swashbuckler/10 ninja is set in stone in my mind. The only question remaining is what i want to do with the last two levels and if i should try to dual wield or not.
I would definitely go Inspired Blade, then take Combat Trick: Fencing Grace as your first ninja trick. It will be much more effective and balanced than TWF.
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Reynard_the_fox wrote: I would definitely go Inspired Blade, then take Combat Trick: Fencing Grace as your first ninja trick. It will be much more effective and balanced than TWF. I don't think i can argue with this. As much as i want do want TWF, i feel like i am trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. While i think that i could get it to fit with enough force, i think the concept is just smoother with an inspired blade, focusing on a rapier. Extra AC with a buckler isn't too shabby either.
if i wasn't doing the whole tail thing, twf would work. But i think i am just trying to combine too many character concepts on a single template
If i want to be a sucker for complicated things:
(allows me to eventually flurry a temple sword, but start with a siangham)
1) Swashbuckler
2-3) ninja
4) monk (sohei)
5-8) ninja
9) monk
10-13) ninja
If i want to keep it simple)
1)Swashbuckler (inspired blade)
2-7) ninja
8-9) paladin
10-13) Ninja
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