Magic Sherlock Holmes


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So, as part of my look into worldbuilding, I recently realized that the game isn't very clear on how people go about solving crimes.

There are, of course, several options available to adventurers. When a suspect is in custody, a spellcaster can use contact other plane to contact as many different planar powers as their Intelligence check results allow. If four different greater deities all agree that Bandit McBanditson committed the crime, you have a pretty good place to start with the discern lies action.

But the investigator (who is the supposed master at this) doesn't get discern lies or contact other plane. And neither do NPC classes.

So how are crimes solved?


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Like regular criminal investigations: collection evidence.
Non-magical crimes, this is easy. Check for clues (Perception/Survival), look for and question witnesses (diplomacy-gather information), interrogation (diplomacy/intimidate/sense motive), question criminal underworld contacts (knowledge: local, diplomacy-gather information).

Magical-in-nature crimes require some imagination (and good helping of police/crime procedural watching on the TV). If not a spellcaster, have a magic item that can do detect magic (rod of alertness, spellsight bracer, cloak of the hedge wizard (divination) seems like the best choice because it's cheap and at-will), identify the spell if there's still a spell aura (Spellcraft). Determine if there's spell components that are rare or unique (Spellcraft or Knowledge Arcana). See if there's a specific source for components like an arcane supply store and question for recent buyers (knowledge local or diplomacy). If no aura, try to figure remains or residue of component and identify spell that way (perception + knowledge arcana DC 20). If crime perpetrated by an invisible creature, look for tracks, see if you can figure out shoe-size, age of footwear and where it was purchased. In fantasy settings there's no generally no factory machines that spit out footwear, but handmade so if recent purchase the original cobbler might remember details of the buyer (craft (cobbler), knowledge local, diplomacy). If a summononed creature doing the crime, check for tracks and identify the creature (Surviavl, appropriate knowledge check), ask around the spellcaster community to see who might be powerful enough to summon/create such a creature (diplomacy or knowledge local).
The key for magic-based crimes is to figure out motive and how crime was done, what was needed, and how'd they get it. Just like regular crimes but gotta be real creative in how you'd figure out how the crime was committed and figuring out details.

Contact other planes, discern lies, and other simple spell uses for investigations is the lazy way and makes investigation AP books or PFS scenarios boring. That's why the writers always try to put in extra difficulty so any mysteries they put in can't be simply solved with simple spell use. Check out Rise of the Runelords Book 2, Council of Thieves, Carrion Crown Book 2, and loads of PFS non-combat heavy scenarios. Those adventures put a lot of legwork for adventurers to go about collecting evidence. At the very least gotta do investigatory work to ring up a list of suspects to use those spells on.


the investigator brings in the suspects.

the inquistor questions them with spells active

everyone rejoices that they captured the evil mastermind

only to find out a bit later that he was a simple mook

and the world keeps turning^^


Thelemic_Noun wrote:

So, as part of my look into worldbuilding, I recently realized that the game isn't very clear on how people go about solving crimes.

There are, of course, several options available to adventurers. When a suspect is in custody, a spellcaster can use contact other plane to contact as many different planar powers as their Intelligence check results allow. If four different greater deities all agree that Bandit McBanditson committed the crime, you have a pretty good place to start with the discern lies action.

But the investigator (who is the supposed master at this) doesn't get discern lies or contact other plane. And neither do NPC classes.

So how are crimes solved?

Presumably most high level characters dont go around solving petty crimes. Unless its a state murder, or a theft of the crown jewels, chances are the people dealing with it dont have more then a few character levels.

Consequently, they solve crimes the way everyone does, gathering evidence, questioning witnesses, interogating suspects etc. They might have a few magical tools at their disposal, but it would probably be more along the lines of a scroll of locate object then a contact other plane spell.

After all how many deities, even lawful ones would be happy about being contacted hundreds of times a day about petty crimes(keep in mind the definition of petty to a diety could be rather wide). Most crimes will be solved with good old fashioned skill checks. Or simply not solved at all (see most crimes in which the perpetrator was not immediately identified or apprehended anytime before the modern age).

Liberty's Edge

Depends on where the crime happened and how important it is.

A small town is gonna have few crimes of any import that aren't immediately obvious ("Yep, Farmer Brown finally snapped and killed his wife. Damn shame.") and thus need little investigative work. Most of them probably do have at least a 3rd level Cleric, though, who can use Zone of Truth to make sure they got it right on a murder investigation or something like that (or maybe whenever the criminal demands such a reading). Lesser crimes will just either get solved or not via mundane detective work (and with few dedicated detectives...not necessarily very good detective work).

Now, a big city is a different matter. For major crimes, 5th level Investigators can have both excellent tracking skills and the Empathy talent (mimicking Detect Thoughts) while Inquisitors at the same level can also both track and use Discern Lies (both are also capable of excellent Perception and social skills). And Zone of Truth and Detect Thoughts remain widely available (as 2nd level spells).

Now, all of these involve a competent, seasoned, professional (though one of low enough level to be readily available in a larger city) putting in some time, effort, and maybe spells, so it'll vary widely by society what crimes they put that much effort into (poor people will tend to get the shaft in many such societies, for example). Speak With Dead is also an excellent investigative spell available to 5th level, while Blood Biography is also 3rd and another excellent investigative tool. Still, note that all these methods tend to enhance more mundane investigative techniques rather than replacing them...unless the criminal was stupid, anyway (Speak With Dead will just give you away if you murder someone who knows you face to face, for example). Minor crimes will, again, get solved by mundane means or not at all.

Now, for really important crimes the high level magic gets to come out to play...which would be why generally only high level people with countermeasures against such things engage in stealing the crown jewels or assassinating kings.


I created a product for my Kaidan setting of Japanese horror (PFRPG) called Haiku of Horror: Autumn Moon Bath House which is essentially a murder mystery mini-play. It has a built-in curse that essentially directs PCs to want to solve the mystery, involving laying a ghost to rest in order to most easily remove the curse.

The way it has been designed, the perpetrator of the murder did so based on a misunderstanding, she isn't trying to lie about it (though unapproached she's not willing to spill the beans). So Discern Lies would have no beneficial effect - she thinks her motives are based on the truth (which it is not).

Because the ghost in question has been statted in multiple CR versions up to CR 22, this murder mystery could very well fit a high level game, yet still doesn't rely on magic to find the clues.

Even though this murder mystery was created long before the existence of the Investigator hybrid class, her Inspiration ability is right along the lines of what is necessary to solve it, no magic required.

The process of discovering the truth involves mostly interrogations with the bath house staff and others operating near the bath house in the same community it is located. It also includes searching the premises to identify the clues as revealed in those interrogations, before realizing who the perpetrator is and confronting her. Once the truth is revealed, the perpetrator realizes the fault in her misunderstanding with an "oh my god, what have I done?" A magistrate happens to be one of the guests in the bath house who will arrest her. Once this happens the murder is fully solved, the curse is removed and the ghost lain to rest.

Note: the curse includes a -10 modifier to the DC check for attempts to remove the curse by spell.

I agree with the other posters that using a spell to solve the mystery is not only the lazy way to solve crimes, but in this instance, magic plays little part in solving it. Not that this is the only way to solve murder mysteries in game, but its a good example of how one could be set-up for play without the need for magical intervention.


What is Dresden Files?

Liberty's Edge

Marroar Gellantara wrote:
What is Dresden Files?

The Dresden Files are a series of urban fantasy novels by Jim Butcher featuring a Wizard PI. They are very good. There was also a TV show, which was still pretty good, though less so than the books IMO.

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