Round sequence problem


Rules Questions


I know it exists, but we didnt rules lawyer it mid-game this evening.

Our situation: My initiative 15, bad guys initiative 18. The rest of the party is scattered higher, between, and lower on the initiative track. I cast a spell (Chains of Light) that paralyzes the bad guy that allows a save every round to become un-paralyzed, which he fails on Round 1 after my standard action to cast it. We run through the initiative into the next round and the GM announces the bad guy is making his save check on initiative 18. I said, he cant, he has to make that save on my 15 initiative for a full round effect, the three PCs who go between 15 & 18 agree, and we have a minor issue.

My problem is that I cant find this anywhere stated directly in the combat/spell rules for when the NPC makes the save within the sequence.

My GMs point is that regardless, his guy acts on 18 (even though he has a dex of 0/paralyzed condition/helpless) and that's when he "acts" to make his save. The bad guy has no other way to create an immediate action to make the save or remove the magic. It became moot when the bad guy failed his save again and got coupe de grace'd.

My issue:

"Initiative Checks/Inaction

Even if you can't take actions, you retain your initiative score for the duration of the encounter."

Any reference within the Core? In this case the stat change because of dex loss would have immediately dropped his initiative by 5 but next time we might have a wider spread. My only thought is that Hold Person/Monster, which states the victim makes its save on ITS turn, wasnt translated to Chains of Light. Otherwise, it isnt fair to the people who act within the spread on initiative, as they can never react to the spells benefit.


Your GM was right. Initiative does not ever change once made for a combat and a creature makes a save on its turn every round for that spell. So yes, you cast, and then if the creature has its own turn next, it immediately gets to save again.


Just to clarify, if your idea was correct Heimdall, you would also Roll initiative -dex bonuses on a surprise round, which is not the case as everyone who is surprised & has not acted yet is considered flat footed.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Chain of light is missing some information (when you make the ST, if it is a action), so your GM fell back to the best spell for reference:

Hold Person[ wrote:
The subject becomes paralyzed and freezes in place. It is aware and breathes normally but cannot take any actions, even speech. Each round on its turn, the subject may attempt a new saving throw to end the effect. This is a full-round action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A winged creature who is paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A swimmer can't swim and may drown.

Perfectly reasonable.


He didn't fall back into Hold Person, was more pushed harshly into it :)

I guess this will mean more strategic planning of initiative jumping, using a Delay to allow my friends to get in their smacks. This seems counter productive from a players perspective, and will probably generate more irritation from the GM than the oddly timed spell did.

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