Goblin Squad Member
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No. We are in Alpha/Early Access.
@TClifford:
On Monday (barring delays) you will be able to play in the Alpha. Have fun!
The Alpha is scheduled to end on the 25th and Early Enrollment is scheduled to begin on the 25th. If you have Early Enrollment access (and it sounds like you do), you'll be able to play on the first day of Early Enrollment (if you want to).
You can verify your Enrollment status by logging in to gobliworks.com and clicking the account link (it's right below the Pathfinder Online logo and it's in the form "username account". You'll see your enrollment status on the information page.
There is no "beta". We should not have used that term in the Reward description but by the time we decided it was a mistake to have used that term it was too late to change the Reward text. Early Enrollment is not a "beta test" in the classic sense. It is instead "early access". The game will be a "minimum viable product" - a complete, playable game that has all the basic features required to play. It will however be the first iteration of those features and some non-essential features are still being developed. You, and the other Early Enrollees will have a chance to help us create Pathfinder Online through our Crowdforging intiatives.
If you don't want to play the game at this time you do not have to begin using the game time you received from the Kickstarter and can wait as long as you wish before you do use that time. The game will continuously iterate and become more complex as time progresses.
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Goblin Squad Member
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PFO will not have a beta phase, it doesn't fall into any paradigm, so don't try to fit it to one. Games in general don't fit into what most would consider alpha/beta, it is really up to the developer to classify the stage of their game. GW has decided to name and describe their own development phases: Alpha, EE and OE.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No. We are in Early Access.
@TClifford:
On Monday (barring delays) you will be able to play in the Alpha. Have fun!
The Alpha is scheduled to end on the 25th and Early Enrollment is scheduled to begin on the 25th. If you have Early Enrollment access (and it sounds like you do), you'll be able to play on the first day of Early Enrollment (if you want to).
You can verify your Enrollment status by logging in to gobliworks.com and clicking the account link (it's right below the Pathfinder Online logo and it's in the form "username account". You'll see your enrollment status on the information page.
There is no "beta". We should not have used that term in the Reward description but by the time we decided it was a mistake to have used that term it was too late to change the Reward text. Early Enrollment is not a "beta test" in the classic sense. It is instead "early access". The game will be a "minimum viable product" - a complete, playable game that has all the basic features required to play. It will however be the first iteration of those features and some non-essential features are still being developed. You, and the other Early Enrollees will have a chance to help us create Pathfinder Online through our Crowdforging intiatives.
If you don't want to play the game at this time you do not have to begin using the game time you received from the Kickstarter and can wait as long as you wish before you do use that time. The game will continuously iterate and become more complex as time progresses.
We're still in Alpha. When we go into EE, all alpha gets wiped, and the characters we start from there are staying.
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Goblin Squad Member
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We're still in Alpha testing. This is the widest phase of the Alpha, meant to stress test the system under larger loads than the limited pool of Alpha account purchasers and invitees could provide.
GW has been modifying the standard language a bit. They want to call this stage Alpha, then the next stage Early Enrollment, then Open Enrollment. They haven't assigned the term 'Beta Test' to any phase of the project. The result has been some linguistic confusion, and people calling various stages of the project Beta.
Officially, there is no Beta. On the other hand, trying to enforce your own naming scheme on things that already have names doesn't always catch on.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Assuming this game is using Agile Development the terms Alpha and Beta are somewhat meaningless and should never have been used as they are misleading.
Agreed. Go ask Ryan how he feels these common MMO terms relate (or not) to PFO development. :)
Wait a minute... Beta's are feature complete?
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Goblin Squad Member
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A beta build is feature-complete but not fully tested. PFO will never have such a build.
Are you saying PFO will never be feature complete? I might actually agree with that. I don't believe they will ever manage to get half the stuff they pipe dreamed in the Blogs these passed two years.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Alpha/Beta - it is just semantics, not laws or fixtures on the crystal sphere.
Move along, nothing to see here :-)
No it is not semantics.
Agile Development never has a Beta.
With Agile Development entire functional sections of the final product are delivered close to complete and then refined. When the customers/team are happy with the current iteration you release the next section of functionality and refine that.
It generally will also continue after the product is deployed right up to the point the solution is being phased out.
Hence at no point is there ever a "complete product" for testing that could be called a Beta. The Beta concept is a hangover from old-school development cycles and management.
This is part of the issue with all the arguments on the forums. With agile development you are meant to ship in sections and refine things before moving forward NOT ship the whole thing at once. Unfortunately people do not understand this and are expecting EE to be close to a complete game and see any missing functionality as a flaw.
The other problem is what some people see as essential for the first "iteration" such as an AH others will see as irrelevant and want some other feature like ganking/looting functionality shipped instead. The issue here is that with traditional Agile Development you deal with a single customer that sets priorities whereas in PFO you have crowdforging where unfortunately there is no consensus and people are refusing to compromise and just throw tantrums if it does not always go their way.
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It is semantics. Everything that has been going on here is a play on words. Not much better than dirty salesmen politicians.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A beta build is feature-complete but not fully tested. PFO will never have such a build.
...but the kickstarter pathfinder online page uses the term EE and beta interchangeably.
I know a few Paizo/pathfinder tabletop fans who backed the kickstarter who are less than happy, putting it mildly, that the rich hybrid MMO that had been described at kickstarter launch time has somehow morphed into a PVP focused 'minimum viable product'. Apparently the kickstarter page even had a video clip of dungeon exploration.
They had expected EE to be a beta, not feature complete, with some bugs, but stable, with enough content to demonstrate the range of activities that would be in the game at OE, which had been mentioned on the kickstarter websites, and indicate in general the quality level that GW would strive towards when developing additional features (graphics, etc).
It has been more than two years since the first kickstarter, they expected way more of the alpha/prospective EE launch build than we've seen.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A beta build is feature-complete but not fully tested. PFO will never have such a build....but the kickstarter pathfinder online page uses the term EE and beta interchangeably.
I know a few Paizo/pathfinder tabletop fans who backed the kickstarter who are less than happy, putting it mildly, that the rich hybrid MMO that had been described at kickstarter launch time has somehow morphed into a PVP focused 'minimum viable product'. Apparently the kickstarter page even had a video clip of dungeon exploration.
They had expected EE to be a beta, not feature complete, with some bugs, but stable, with enough content to demonstrate the range of activities that would be in the game at OE, which had been mentioned on the kickstarter websites, and indicate in general the quality level that GW would strive towards when developing additional features (graphics, etc).
It has been more than two years since the first kickstarter, they expected way more of the alpha/prospective EE launch build than we've seen.
Yeah the use of the term Beta was bad PR and particularly stupid as the development model they are using is one that delivers functionality in chunks so there can be no beta. Parts of the game will be there, parts must be missing and which bits are left out is a priority decision.
The 1v1 PvP focus of late (as opposed to the settlement based tactical PvP originally proposed ) is a direct result of crowdforging and highlights one of the flaws of crowdforging. Basically there is a certain sort of PvP player that is loud agressive and always needs to be noticed. They need to "win" at all costs and refuse to give on any issue even if they are wrong. They will often state their values and opinions as "obviously right" call anyone that disagrees a fanboy and throw tantrums if they do not get their way.
The problem with crowdforging with regard to something like prioritising PvP vs PvE content is the PvE adherents generally are off playing the game or working on guides and spreadsheets whilst the PvP side of thing are being political and being loud and outspoken.
Crowd forging in my opinion is a negative thing and a failure becasue a) it can be hijacked by a few opiniated loud people and b) it generally generates negativity that will discourage any outsiders from playing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Neadenil
Where is this 1v1 PvP focus? Do you mean the voices calling for a dueling system?
If you are referring to the WoT, if it is 1v1, that is a reflection of the sparse server population.
One thing they haven't done yet is do a server wipe and have all of the available players log into Thornkeep.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If it makes a difference to the players' esteem for the game by all means call it whatever makes sense to you. The game isn't yet what it will be.
Some will always assert that all things other than themselves don't live up to their standards and expectations, no matter what. Whether they imagine that pointing out problems elsewhere distracts the eye from their own shortcomings or passing judgment on others flatters their illusion of authority it matters little until those who are doing the work pronounce completion.
When a work of art is complete, then it is right to aesthetically judge, not earlier while it is still being crafted.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Sometimes when discussing PFO, I can sympathize with this camel salesman. People are expecting the game and its development process to be something it is not*. It's a very good camel but it's not a jetplane, so sorry, no it's incapable of flight.
(*: not that I presume to actually know what it is/will be but out of what it is now, I see potential for it to become something I could like and enjoy.)
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Sometimes when discussing PFO, I can sympathize with this camel salesman. People are expecting the game and its development process to be something it is not*. It's a very good camel but it's not a jetplane, so sorry, no it's incapable of flight.
(*: not that I presume to actually know what it is/will be but out of what it is now, I see potential for it to become something I could like and enjoy.)
Well, when the nuclear fusion engined humvee is cheaper short term as well as long term, you can wonder what is the point of buying a camel.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Well, when the nuclear fusion engined humvee is cheaper short term as well as long term, you can wonder what is the point of buying a camel.
Not really relevant to the discussion, but when I told friends I rode in a humvee, they yawned. When I told them I rode a camel, they wanted to know more.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There are a good number of people with access to the program in its current state. Not all of them are employees of Paizo. Not all of them paid for Alpha Test accounts. The game has not yet reached the state that Goblinworks calls Early Enrollment. The characters we're playing will be deleted on the eve of Early Enrollment.
Call this stage in the game's development Beta, or Alpha Stress Test, or Miss Maybelle Jolene Merriweather. I don't care.
What I do care about is reaching the stage that Goblinworks calls Early Enrollment, which is when:
a) our characters become permanent,
b) our months of credited play* begin to tick away, and
c) Goblinworks starts to collect a monthly fee for playing Pathfinder Online**.
* from the Kickstarter, or purchases from the Goblinworks store
** after our months of credited play have been redeemed
My preference would be for the stage that Goblinworks calls Early Enrollment to start as soon as possible (tomorrow would be acceptable to me). Yes, there are critical things that don't work. Very important systems are broken, or have not yet been implemented. I still want EE to start as soon as possible. I also want people to get a functional game when they start paying, though, so that's a contradiction.
By functional, I mean that all the systems that have been introduced work. Not that they're perfect, just that they fall into one of two categories:
a) Not implemented yet, or
b) Implemented and working.
The War of Towers is a great example of something that is neither a) nor b). It's there, but it's broken, so it frustrates people more than it excites them.
In its current state, whatever you may call it, the game has lost much of its fun for me. Most of the people who started playing during the period that Goblinworks called the Stress Test have already quit again. It's difficult for me to put together a party large enough to have any measurable effect on an escalation. Few to none of my actions in game will matter in the long run, because my character will be deleted. These forums have stagnated back to fits of bad-tempered name-calling, just like in the months between the announcement of a bunch of cool ideas, and the debut of the stage that Goblinworks called the Alpha Test.
We've hit another awkward in-between stage. It's not what people expect from what they'd call Alpha, it's not what people expect to get for their money when they start paying. It just has to trudge through this stage, before things get exciting again.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I begin to agree with KarlBob, I have tested the stuff I wanted to test, shaped a picture of what I will do, and whats doable.
I havent visited every hex, but damn good many of them and seen all the towns (the are all the same I can tell you).
Now I train solo combat, as I imagine playing in EU time will make solo play the most common way for me. With the exception of a couple of lplanned ate nighters.