Spelllstrike and crits

[Ivarrwolfsong]

Per the description of Spellstrike, it appears that a multi-use/multi-touch spell delivered through the weapon would only benefit from the weapon’s crit range for the one attack that is substituted for the free touch attack granted when casting a touch spell.

Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack . Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell . If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon's critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.

Basically, Spellstrike does 2 things:
1) Whenever the magus casts a touch spell, he can deliver it through his weapon. A spell such as chill touch or frostbite has multiple touches. As the description of Spellstrike indicates that you can deliver the spell through your weapon, and the spell is a multi-touch affair, it makes sense that you are still delivering the spell on subsequent touches.
2) It allows you to use your weapon to deliver the free touch attack granted when casting a touch spell as a normal melee attack. If you do so this , the spell benefits from the weapon’s crit range, but not multiplier.

So here is an example of an 8th level magus with haste attacking with a +3 rapier:
Using spell combat, Max casts frostbite from 10 feet away from Mr X and Five Foot Steps in.
Attack 1 – Max designates this as his free attack (replacing the normal free touch attack from casting a touch spell) from Spellstrike. He rolls an 18 and then confirms the crit. He does 2d6+6 with his +3 rapier (crit) AND 2d6+16 from frostbite (crit).
Attack 2 – This is Max’s primary attack. He rolls a 19 and crits with his weapon. Since frostbite allows one touch per level, he can also deliver another blast of spell damage. However, because this isn’t the free attack gained from Spellstrike (the “this attack” referred to in the description above), the spell does not benefit from the rapier’s 18-20 crit range. The spell still has a 20 crit range. Max does 2d6+6 with his +3 rapier (crit) AND 1d6+8 from frostbite (not a crit).
Attack 3 – The hasted attack. If Max hits, he will still do weapon+spell damage since he has 6 touches left for frostbite. He rolls a 4 and misses.
Attack 4 – the iterative attack. Max rolls a 20! Both the rapier (crit range: 18-20) and the spell (crit range: 20) crit! He does 2d6+6 with his +3 rapier (crit) AND 2d6+16 from frostbite (crit).

Is this correct or incorrect? Please explain your answer.

[Aikidoka]

Nope, the 1st line of spell strike allows you to deliver the spell through weapon as part of a melee attack. All of the additional touches are able to be delivered as it is still the same spell that was cast with the range of touch.

Otherwise spells that charges are held because you miss would not be able to spell strike etc.

[claudekennilol]

That is incorrect.

It is supposed to work with each touch "charge". By your over-critical reading, by it only working with the free touch granted by the Spellstrike ability, you wouldn't even be able to deliver the leftover charges via the weapon.

Per the FAQ that qualifies that the ability works with multiple touches from the same spell, the ability works (it either works or it doesn't--so crit included).

[Ivarrwolfsong]

I do agree that additional touches can be delivered through spell strike. That is clear from the first sentence of the spell strike description as you are still delivering the spell in its entirety over several rounds. That is also addressed by the FAQ.

However, later in then description, it indicates that you can deliver the free touch attack through your weapon as what amounts to a free weapon attack. It then specifically lists several effects that affect *this attack* not just " attacks" or "all attacks" or "these attacks" or "spellstrike attacks", but "this attack".... One of those modifications that affects "this attack" is the spell using the the weapon's crit modifier.

It is actually pretty specific in referring back to the free touch attack's replacement.

[bbangerter]

You've over analyzed it. All charge deliveries gain the benefit of the weapons critical range, regardless of whether that is an attack from the free one granted, or an attack in a later round.

(Pedantically you can make the argument you are making and be right from a very narrow perspective of how the rules operate - but the intent of spellstrike is to allow weapon damage plus weapon crit range all the time).

[Ivarrwolfsong]

I'm playing a magus in PFS and don't really have the luxury of RAI vs RAW.

To be honest, I was actually hoping someone would find something I'm missing :)

Thanks for the feedback all who have responded so far.

[kestral287]

You really don't need RAW vs. RAI. All that's happening here is you're being overspecific with the word "this". Checking them all over, there are clearly examples that run counter to basic Magus functionality. For example:

One could argue that only the special attack granted by Spellstrike suffers the -2 penalty for Spell Combat; the rest are made at full accuracy despite Spell Combat's wording because, so long as they have a charge of a spell in them, they are Spellstrikes and only the 'free' Spellstrike is impeded by Spell Combat. This argument uses the exact same logic as the crit one-- "This" implies to the free attack and not the entire ability"-- and is totally wrong.

The reality is that the bolded "This" statements refer to the melee attack referenced in the original line.

If your PFS GMs are consistently analyzing Spellstrike in a way that screws your character build, you have two basic options:

1. Redesign. Using a single-touch spell as your focus avoids the problem because (barring semi-rare cases involving a miss immediately followed by a crit) there are no non-"free weapon attack" cases to be effected.

2. Exploit it merrily. Point out that you don't take Spell Combat penalties due to their interpretation, as well as any other loophole that you can find based on that usage of the word "this", and when corrected ask (politely) for them to explain their logic via rules text, (politely) point to the above interpretation of Spellstrike in this way, and make sure to rest your argument on the notion that it's using the same word analysis used by the GM.

3. Pass it up the line for a hard ruling. This is probably a wiser plan than #2, to be honest.

If it's you that's overanalyzing, consider the full implications of that analysis, compare it to the plainly-revealed RAW of Spell Combat and the various FAQs, and ask yourself what sounds correct.

[Ivarrwolfsong]

kestral287 wrote:

One could argue that only the special attack granted by Spellstrike suffers the -2 penalty for Spell Combat; the rest are made at full accuracy despite Spell Combat's wording because, so long as they have a charge of a spell in them, they are Spellstrikes and only the 'free' Spellstrike is impeded by Spell Combat. This argument uses the exact same logic as the crit one-- "This" implies to the free attack and not the entire ability"-- and is totally wrong.

I disagree. The description of Spell Combat explains how the other attacks are modified. The description of spellstrike adds a new attack to spell combat and says this new attack is also modified as per spell combat.

kestral287 wrote:

The reality is that the bolded "This" statements refer to the melee attack referenced in the original line.

There is nothing written in the spellstrike description that backs this "reality". One has to assume the "this attack" refers to the last attack written about before being referred to as "this attack".

Thanks for the response, and I see where you're coming from. I just don't see the backing in the description.