Fireball - Ranged Touch Attack AC


Rules Questions


Fireball wrote:

If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

What is the touch AC of the narrow passage? This came up on Saturday night and my player insisted it would be a 10 (makes sense), and frankly it ended up not mattering, but it's not clear to me what the AC would actually be.

FWIW, I probably shouldn't have required the roll at all, but he was attempting to get the fireball through a double-door, a 10 foot wide hallway with 4 medium sized creatures blocking passage (2x2 in the middle of the hallway), and another double-door at the far end of the 20 foot hallway, from a position behind two other medium creatures. I thought there should be a chance he accidentally hits something in the hallway, albeit a very low one. He wasn't happy about it but he obliged.

Silver Crusade

I think the actual AC would be say 9, since it seems to be the size of a large creature. Maybe a -4 penalty since it's sort of firing into melee, since you don't want it detonating prematurely. But no, I don't think that really counts as a narrow passage, they're talking more like an arrow slit.


This is mostly down to GM fiat. The usual way we've done it is AC 10 to hit a square and increasing difficult based on what's in the way. So in our games it's AC 10, +4 if thee are people or things in the way, +8 if you are trying to shoot through combat in a restricted area ie( trying to hit the guys far down the tunnel rather than the guys your party are fighting at the mouth of it.)


CRB Throw Splash Weapon wrote:
You can instead target a specific grid intersection. Treat this as a ranged attack against AC 5.

Maybe this helps a little. Spells like 'fireball' dont have range increments so in most cases you can use AC5. Cover can increasae the AC to 9 or 13 but to be honest .. on my table we dont use this rule.


So, base AC is 10. Doorway is Large (10ft, -1) inanimate object (-5 for having 0 dex) that have soft cover (+4) wich leaves it at 8 AC (unless creatures actively prevent that action. In that case if they are not flat footed, made spellcraft check to identify spell and determined to jump in front of fireball they may provide Aid Another to doorway for +2 each, up to 16 AC)

Is there anything i missed?


DarkPhoenixx wrote:

So, base AC is 10. Doorway is Large (10ft, -1) inanimate object (-5 for having 0 dex) that have soft cover (+4) wich leaves it at 8 AC (unless creatures actively prevent that action. In that case if they are not flat footed, made spellcraft check to identify spell and determined to jump in front of fireball they may provide Aid Another to doorway for +2 each, up to 16 AC)

Is there anything i missed?

Thanks! Our game has been on hiatus for a few months. I'll admit I'm a bit rusty, but you're right. Although I'm still not sure I should have even required a roll, since the example given is a really small opening.


DarkPhoenixx wrote:

So, base AC is 10. Doorway is Large (10ft, -1) inanimate object (-5 for having 0 dex) that have soft cover (+4) wich leaves it at 8 AC (unless creatures actively prevent that action. In that case if they are not flat footed, made spellcraft check to identify spell and determined to jump in front of fireball they may provide Aid Another to doorway for +2 each, up to 16 AC)

Is there anything i missed?

Unless they have the bodyguard feat or something like that you cant use aid another as an Immediate action. I think touch attack at AC 5 or AC 9 (with cover) is what you are looking for.


el cuervo wrote:
Fireball wrote:

If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must “hit” the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

What is the touch AC of the narrow passage? This came up on Saturday night and my player insisted it would be a 10 (makes sense), and frankly it ended up not mattering, but it's not clear to me what the AC would actually be.
FWIW, I probably shouldn't have required the roll at all, but he was attempting to get the fireball through a double-door, a 10 foot wide hallway with 4 medium sized creatures blocking passage (2x2 in the middle of the hallway), and another double-door at the far end of the 20 foot hallway, from a position behind two other medium creatures. I thought there should be a chance he accidentally hits something in the hallway, albeit a very low one. He wasn't happy about it but he obliged.

I wouldn't have required a roll, either, because the medium creatures don't completely take up their squares. If there's a 5-foot opening with a medium creature, I wouldn't call it a roll. A 5-foot opening with a large creature squeezing? Yeah, OK, I could see having to make a roll to get past that.

As Eridan pointed out, the fireball is targeting a location, not a creature: for area effect attacks, there's no benefit to targeting a specific creature (except showing off).

Since you don't normally have to make a ranged touch attack to target the location, I would say you just have to beat the cover penalty with no other modifiers.
For the arrowslit example, they define arrowslits as Improved Cover:

Quote:
In some cases, such as attacking a target hiding behind an arrowslit, cover may provide a greater bonus to AC and Reflex saves. In such situations, the normal cover bonuses to AC and Reflex saves can be doubled (to +8 and +4, respectively).

So to get the fireball through the arrowslit, I'd make you beat an 8 AC.

To get past the squeezing large creature, it's probably still only a 4 AC (since it's not really good enough to be improved cover).

Once it's past the cover, it lands exactly where you want it to, as long as it's in a straight line and within 600 feet.


I'll second the idea that shooting down a hallway with 10' wide doubledoors and creatures in it is not something that needs a check. Target hiding in an arrow slit would be against AC8. So target in hallway (even down the hallway) should be AC 0 (auto success).


Is there a chart detailing the measurements of Small (et al.) objects? I can't seem to find it these days and am wondering if it was a holdover from 3.5.


blahpers wrote:
Is there a chart detailing the measurements of Small (et al.) objects? I can't seem to find it these days and am wondering if it was a holdover from 3.5.

I think this applies:

Space, Reach, & Threatened Areas

The table has general measurements, and according to that, a Small object is between 2 and 4 ft.

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