magus / wizard

[alisdair smith]

Hey guys,

so i'm pondering the possibility of a magus/wizard build and how playable it'd be.

theory would be to go with magus up till 5th, take a level of wizard (scryer), then back to magus for another level. Then take Eldritch knight from levels 8-17 and finally top off with either 3 more levels in wizard, or 3 levels in something like hellknight enforcer.

For Magus, i think the first arcana would be totally open to suggestions, but the level 6 arcana would be Broad Study.

the result of the above is a character with the following at the end (assume 22 intelligence)

BAB of 16 (so 4 attacks vs the magus' normal 3)
Spells:
0 - 9/day
1 - 4 magus + 4 wizard + 1 specialist + 4 from int, so 13/day
2 - 3 magus + 4 wizard + 1 specialist + 4 from int, so 12/day
3 - 4 wizard +1 specialist +1 from int, so 6/day
4 - 4 wizard +1 specialist +1 from int, so 6/day
5 - 3 wizard +1 specialist +1 from int, so 5/day
6 - 2 wizard +1 specialist +1 from int, so 4/day
7 - 1 wizard +1 specialist, so 2/day

saves of 11/6/12

has access to spellcombat and spellstrike with any of the above spells
has a bonus to initiative from scryer
has spell recall to make the magus spells go a little further if needed
can scribe scrolls and gets 3 other bonus feats
gets to cast additional spells on criticals from spellcombat

cannot cast the wizard type spells with armour on, or has to use arcane armour training to do that... if picking up the latter, swap the final 3 wizard levels for hellknight, netting a couple more abilities and slight ability to ignore ASF without using any kind of action.

It FEELS like the above character would be pretty versatile and probably more useful than a magus outside of combat due to access to the wizard spell list.

I've got a swash/wis/ek/hellknight im playing that ends up with marginally better BAB (17), slightly worse saves and 3 9th level spells a day, but this feels like it'd be pretty comparable, especially if the right traits/feats and spells are taken.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[GM_Solspiral]

The field will rain hate on your build because you lose some caster levels. Personally I think it is a fine build but I will point out that magus has one of the best spell lists...

I dig it but I like having too many spells.

[Imbicatus]

You'll only have a caster level of 5 for magus slots, and 14 for wizard slots. Don't pick any spells that need a save, and you'll be ok. You would be better off with either a single class magus, or an early entry EK/Hellknight Signifer.

[Cap. Darling]

I think going magus all the way will be more effecient. but if it has to be then i suggest Kensai AT on the magus to get some extra AC. The hit to spells pr Day is not gonna be a problem. It will cost Spell recall but your magus spells are not gonna be your main feature anyway.
And make a deal with the GM about not needing 2 hours every morning to look in your books.

[alisdair smith]

yeah im sticking with the character as I have him.

swashbuckler(inspired blade)1/wizard(shadowcaster scryer)1/Eldritch knight 10/Hellknight Sig 8

traits: forlorn and magical knack
stats
str 13
dex 20
con 12
int 18
wis 12
cha 15

level 1 feats: fencing grace and medium armour prof (he has a flaw which gets him an extra feat).
level 3 enter EK and pickup arcane armour training and combat reflexes.
level 5 pickup iron will
level 7 pickup weapon specialisation (rapier) and Split slot discovery
level 8 enter hellknight and pickup heavy armour prof
level 9 pickup arcane arour expertise and extend spell
level 11 go back to EK and pickup improved critical (rapier)
level 13 get quicken spell
level 14 get greater weapon focus (rapier)

no idea what feats to take for 15th, 17th or 19th.

gets BAB 17, spellcasting as an 18th level wizard (CL20)
saves are an iffy point (hense forlorn and iron will getting thrown in)

big issues: no free spells on level ups mean thats a LOT of spells he has to buy.

any thoughts or suggestions on the above?

(at earliest convenience, pickup a mithral breastplate or maybe just a mithral shirt... the latter is probably better at lower levels as i could ignore all spell failure, eventually, the former is better, and even later, mithral full plate would be an option too)

Originally this character was going to use slashing grace and a longsword, but for backstory he ended up being an aspiring member of the order of the scar, whom favour rapiers.

[Orfamay Quest]

GM_Solspiral wrote:

The field will rain hate on your build because you lose some caster levels.

Well,.... yes.

Three fireballs are not equivalently effective to one wish, and you're missing all the higher-level slots. Also, at level 20, you'll have tremendous difficulty getting anything effective out of spellstrike or spell combat because almost everything has SR at that level.

A balor (e.g.) has SR 31, so you'll need to roll a 26 to affect it with a magus spell, and a 17 to affect it with a wizard spell. You're not going to be doing much with spellstrike against it.

It looks like you've built a gish that can't handle combat.

[Cap. Darling]

You can take arcane strike, the rounds you attack you wont need to spend the swift on arcane armor thingie. One more meta magic feat and Spell perfection Might also be worth a look.

[alisdair smith]

Orfamay Quest wrote:

GM_Solspiral wrote:

The field will rain hate on your build because you lose some caster levels.

Well,.... yes.

Three fireballs are not equivalently effective to one wish, and you're missing all the higher-level slots. Also, at level 20, you'll have tremendous difficulty getting anything effective out of spellstrike or spell combat because almost everything has SR at that level.

A balor (e.g.) has SR 31, so you'll need to roll a 26 to affect it with a magus spell, and a 17 to affect it with a wizard spell. You're not going to be doing much with spellstrike against it.

It looks like you've built a gish that can't handle combat.

How does the updated build fair in your mind? (swashbuckler(inspired blade)1/wizard(shadowcaster scryer)1/Eldritch knight 10/Hellknight Sig 8)

Cap. Darling wrote:

You can take arcane strike, the rounds you attack you wont need to spend the swift on arcane armor thingie. One more meta magic feat and Spell perfection Might also be worth a look.

except arcane strike (and tbh.. even arcane armour training) interfere with spell critical, which should go off pretty often with a 15-20 crit range weapon. Should probably pickup still spell at 15th (when id get spell critical) i guess, so that those free quickened spells arent wasted. Maybe instead of quicken spell?

Or where would you slot arcane strike in?

[Orfamay Quest]

alisdair smith wrote:

Orfamay Quest wrote:

GM_Solspiral wrote:

The field will rain hate on your build because you lose some caster levels.

Well,.... yes.

Three fireballs are not equivalently effective to one wish, and you're missing all the higher-level slots. Also, at level 20, you'll have tremendous difficulty getting anything effective out of spellstrike or spell combat because almost everything has SR at that level.

A balor (e.g.) has SR 31, so you'll need to roll a 26 to affect it with a magus spell, and a 17 to affect it with a wizard spell. You're not going to be doing much with spellstrike against it.

It looks like you've built a gish that can't handle combat.

How does the updated build fair in your mind? (swashbuckler(inspired blade)1/wizard(shadowcaster scryer)1/Eldritch knight 10/Hellknight Sig 8)

Substantially better, as the spells and caster levels stack, so you should be able to affect the balor with your spells. On the other hand, you lose spellstrike from the magus,.... I'm not sure what this is supposed to buy you over straight magus.

[alisdair smith]

i prefer wizard spell list, and level 9 spells honestly, likewise 4 attacks a round will be nice. The magus/wizard idea was more theorycraft, thought perhaps it'd be a viable choice to allow me my love of wizard spells whilst getting the one (and only) ability of magus I really like (spell combat).

suggestions on how to make the Eldritch Hellknight better would be appreciated though.

[GM_Solspiral]

Lately my favorite gish mix is Greensting slayer magus into Arcane Trickster into Eldritch Knight.

[alisdair smith]

yeah, for the Eldritch Hellknight build, I think it'd benefit from additional traits and one of the two traits that lets you reduce the cost of a metamagic feat by one on a single spell at level 14 instead of greater weapon focus. And Still spell instead of quicken spell.

that way, I select a spell I've found I use a lot, cast it as part of a spell critical, without worrying about ASF and rely on arcane armour training in near enough any other scenario.

second trait would be the one that adds +1 to will saves and a further +1 in certain situations (cant remember the name).