I was just reading through some of the mythic archmage stuff and came across perfect preparation. I get that you don't need a spellbook anymore, but how does that effect learning and gaining new spells for wizards?
For example, if I were to have this ability and found a scroll that I wished to add to my list of spells known, would I need to pay the cost to "scribe" the spell into my brain, doing the normal spellcraft chech and what not? I read in another thread that a couple thought it would make a wizard act like a cleric, knowing all spells on their list, but having to prepare them. Has there been any official clarification on this?
You have discovered the secret to preparing spells without having to refer to outside sources. You no longer need to prepare spells from a spellbook (if you're a magus or wizard) or a familiar (if you're a witch). You still must spend the normal amount of time preparing spells. You may keep or discard your spellbook or familiar.
It's up to your gm on how it works.
When I dm I say it let's wizards prepare like a cleric, no spell book and complete access to the spell list.
When my friend dms he says that you just have an infinite spell book in your head, no costs to learn but you must still learn them.
I see. This makes me wonder. Would having a feat or feat chain that allows the wizard to prepare like a cleric except off of their own list be "busted"? A topic for another thread I suppose. Thanks.
Based on the wording there's nothing saying that it grants you additional spells, so it would be reasonable to say they still have to be purchased.
Having the entire Arcane spell list in your head is really, really powerful. Paragon Surge used to add two spells was nasty in its heyday, so getting all of them is something to be leery of. But if you don't think it'll unbalance your game, or you're willing to make them pay for it (I'd make it a Mythic Path ability rather than a feat, personally), then it could be done.
Purchase them for what exactly? You prepare with no outside source so what are you buying? To me that's the least reasonable interpretation.
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Based on the wording there's nothing saying that it grants you additional spells, so it would be reasonable to say they still have to be purchased.
Having the entire Arcane spell list in your head is really, really powerful. Paragon Surge used to add two spells was nasty in its heyday, so getting all of them is something to be leery of. But if you don't think it'll unbalance your game, or you're willing to make them pay for it (I'd make it a Mythic Path ability rather than a feat, personally), then it could be done.
Wild Arcana, at tier 1, already does this.
Not that I disagree, wizards should still need to acquire access to new spells before they can be memorized, but all spells are available for 1 point of mythic power each.
The mental spell book thing I can understand but having to pay to remember it seems down right silly. With eidetic memory all I need is a glance and boom remembered. So if I see it written down, or cast, or see the effect from a magic item that should be enough. Now we are also skipping the no outside source being needed but hey at least its better than paying to remember.
The text on preparing from a borrowed spellbook also refers to "spells known". It's a thing; it just doesn't come up very often.
My interpretation would be that you no longer require a spell book to prepare spell you know, but it doesn't add any spells known to your list. So, to acquire more you must either borrow another wizards spell book and learn it (which has associated costs) or buy a scroll (which also has associated costs). I would probably still include the costs as though you had to wrtie the scroll in your spell book, even though the ability doesn't really touch on how it affects spells known.
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There's nothing else for it; you have to drink the ink. Huffing might also be acceptable.
Sorry, should have quoted the passage:
Wizard Spells and Borrowed Spellbooks
A wizard can use a borrowed spellbook to prepare a spell he already knows and has recorded in his own spellbook, but preparation success is not assured. First, the wizard must decipher the writing in the book (see Arcane Magical Writings, above). Once a spell from another spellcaster's book is deciphered, the reader must make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + spell's level) to prepare the spell. If the check succeeds, the wizard can prepare the spell. He must repeat the check to prepare the spell again, no matter how many times he has prepared it before. If the check fails, he cannot try to prepare the spell from the same source again until the next day. However, as explained above, he does not need to repeat a check to decipher the writing.
Technically, the reference is "spell he already knows and has recorded in his own spellbook".
My big issue with the still costs for "scribing" spells is that makes the ability worse than getting a blesses book. Also they said before that mythic is supposed to be above and beyond.
This same question came up in a mythic game I'm in, ruling was you must learn but no scribing costs. Even with that me and my wizard buddy passes it up because it still added near nothing to us yet if it was complete access we both would have taken it because it wasn't the money it was the access/time (we aren't in a position to just buy random scrolls).
A blessed book can be lost, stolen, or destroyed. Nothing can take away perfect preparation except things that completely take away your mythic power. This might be easy or impossible depending on the campaign.
So get a blessed book, write the things down it it, then sell it off. Now you have written them in a book at least once, and can now perfectly prepare them forever more. Better yet, craft the blessed book, fill it up, sell it for the cost you made it, buy a new one, and repeat until you have all the spells written down.
I treat is as normal scribing cost, but by flavor the cost was for incense other things for a ritual where you commit the spell to memory.
It's worked for us.
Although I like Tarantula's Blessed book idea.
The mental spell book thing I can understand but having to pay to remember it seems down right silly. With eidetic memory all I need is a glance and boom remembered. So if I see it written down, or cast, or see the effect from a magic item that should be enough. Now we are also skipping the no outside source being needed but hey at least its better than paying to remember.You'd be paying for that glance.
I do see the core contention here-- we're talking about different payments. I'm thinking you buying one of those pre-prepared books or a scroll, learning the spell off it by reading it, and being done with it. You wouldn't have to pay to scribe it into your book (or at least, I wouldn't make you). But you still have to get your hands on the spell somehow, and that probably requires some form of gold transaction.
Does that clear things up?
I would run it exactly as you described. The wizard is still paying to "borrow" another spellbook or buy a scroll to learn the spell from. Those have listed costs in the core book.
If the GM insisted on still charging a "scribing" cost as well, I would then go to the blessed book route to avoid paying too much for it.
Nah, might as well toss the scribing cost.
The mental spell book thing I can understand but having to pay to remember it seems down right silly. With eidetic memory all I need is a glance and boom remembered. So if I see it written down, or cast, or see the effect from a magic item that should be enough. Now we are also skipping the no outside source being needed but hey at least its better than paying to remember.You'd be paying for that glance.
I do see the core contention here-- we're talking about different payments. I'm thinking you buying one of those pre-prepared books or a scroll, learning the spell off it by reading it, and being done with it. You wouldn't have to pay to scribe it into your book (or at least, I wouldn't make you). But you still have to get your hands on the spell somehow, and that probably requires some form of gold transaction.
Does that clear things up?
Scribing cost is what the others have been talking about which is IMO silly since you aren't scribing anything. Paying for a copy or scroll is something different because a normal wizard has to do both.
Like I said before rule it how you want. I like to make it worth while and to me just having it be an anti theft measure isn't mythic to me. Having a wizard that need not look anywhere else but to himself to craft his magic is.
I still like how nearly everyone fails to mention the doesn't require an outside source in the ability. I personality don't get the logic of "but you have to learn it from an outside source before you can prepare it" so what you're telling me is I still function like a normal wizard?
I still like how nearly everyone fails to mention the doesn't require an outside source in the ability. I personality don't get the logic of "but you have to learn it from an outside source before you can prepare it" so what you're telling me is I still function like a normal wizard?
That is how I saw it - just one who can never have his spellbooks stolen, or destroyed. I saw it as infinite spell mastery.
It says "prepare your spells without outside source" but doesn't say you learn them that way. That is part of the reason I read it the way I did.
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Personally I never liked the spell tax in the first place. It seems like more of a "because 1st edition" than "because game balance" thing.
The spell tax of having to find/scribe spells for wizards? I see it as a control for the GM to avoid having runway wizard power.
I was just reading through some of the mythic archmage stuff and came across perfect preparation. I get that you don't need a spellbook anymore, but how does that effect learning and gaining new spells for wizards?
For example, if I were to have this ability and found a scroll that I wished to add to my list of spells known, would I need to pay the cost to "scribe" the spell into my brain, doing the normal spellcraft chech and what not? I read in another thread that a couple thought it would make a wizard act like a cleric, knowing all spells on their list, but having to prepare them. Has there been any official clarification on this?
** spoiler omitted **
My GM's ruling was that you still have to do the normal things to add a spell to a book, but once you've added a spell to a book, you have it permanently and can always prepare it with or without access to the book. Pretty much the same reasoning Lord Mhoram gave; it doesn't say it changes how you learn spells, just how you prepare them.
So, yes, you still function like a normal wizard except for the specific change the ability makes, which is you don't need a book to prepare your spells.
Sure you add them to a book you don't need, so you can prepare them without the need of said book. Dang better not throw away that book like the ability say you can.
Sure you add them to a book you don't need, so you can prepare them without the need of said book. Dang better not throw away that book like the ability say you can.I was just reading through some of the mythic archmage stuff and came across perfect preparation. I get that you don't need a spellbook anymore, but how does that effect learning and gaining new spells for wizards?
For example, if I were to have this ability and found a scroll that I wished to add to my list of spells known, would I need to pay the cost to "scribe" the spell into my brain, doing the normal spellcraft chech and what not? I read in another thread that a couple thought it would make a wizard act like a cleric, knowing all spells on their list, but having to prepare them. Has there been any official clarification on this?
** spoiler omitted **
My GM's ruling was that you still have to do the normal things to add a spell to a book, but once you've added a spell to a book, you have it permanently and can always prepare it with or without access to the book. Pretty much the same reasoning Lord Mhoram gave; it doesn't say it changes how you learn spells, just how you prepare them.
So, yes, you still function like a normal wizard except for the specific change the ability makes, which is you don't need a book to prepare your spells.
That's why our group went with the whole "mystic ritual" thing where the wizard studies the spell with the cost in incense and other ritual equipment to learn the spell. Mechanics are the same as scribing a spell, but more fitting to the ability.