Does raising an animal companion's intelligence let it understand a language?


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Does raising an animal companion's intelligence let it understand a language? Or does it first need a point in linguistics?


I believe it understands a language, but you still have to use Handle Animal to get it to act in any capacity. There are some blogpost about it.

Claxon wrote:
Also see this blogpost and this one too.


Quote:

There are many ways an animal can gain intelligence. It can gain hit dice and apply its ability score boost to Int. It can gain the advanced simple template. A druid could cast awaken on it. Regardless of the source, an increase in Int comes with all of the standard bonuses, such as additional skill points. Once a creature's Int reaches 3, it also gains a language. This is where things start to get tricky. "Really, now my pet monkey can talk?" Well, not really. Allow me to explain.

Gaining a language does not necessarily grant the ability to speak. Most animals do not possess the correct anatomy for speech. While a very intelligent dolphin might be taught to understand Common, there's no way for him speak it. There is also the issue of learning the language. The rules are mostly silent on this front, due to ease of play for PCs, but a GM should feel safe in assuming that it might take years to actually teach Common to an intelligent animal. All of this, of course, assumes that the animal even bothers to fill that language slot. Possessing the ability to use a language does not necessarily mean that such an ability is utilized.

Quote:
The Handle Animal skill functions similarly no matter how intelligent an animal becomes. A character must still make Handle Animal checks to train his animal and get him to perform the appropriate tasks. A GM should, however, make exceptions in the case of how such an intelligent animal might react in absence of instructions. It might not know to unlock a door to escape a burning building—as that's a fact that's learned over time and experience—but a smart animal might have a better chance of finding a way out.


Regardless of that blog post:

Keep in mind that if raising an animal's int to 3 and it learning a language (through whatever means the DM allows) does NOT allow you to direct it in combat with verbal commands in that language and instead requires a skill check, then any PC with that same intelligence should labor under that same restriction.

From the CRB under "intelligence"
Any creature capable of understanding speech has a score of at least 3.

An int of 3 may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer or the anything but they are *capable* of *understanding* the speech of any language that they have learned.

If getting an int of 3 and learning a language doesn't allow a creature to act based on the speech of others then a PC with an int of 3 can't do it either.

-S


False.

The blogpost is essentially creating a difference between animal int 3 and humanoid int 3.

Regardless, the lowest int noted anywhere for a humanoid is int 4 for the village idiot. For player characters it is impossible to have below int 5 (without some sort of magical effect causing it), as you can only sell down to a 7 and a race can apply a -2 penalty.

And besides all that, the real reason is one of balance. They want you to have to spend skill points on handle animal. They want your animal companion to be restricted in the actions it can take through tricks and such. It might "make sense" to allow it, but it's too easy to achieve int 3 and would give to big a bonus if it allowed you to play the animal companion without needing to use tricks or handle animal.


Taking a rank in Linguistics for its next bonus skill is fairly useful anyways. Should resolve any issue of ambiguity with absolution; The animal now comprehends a language of choice. Just make sure not to forget that it still needs Handle Animal checks to do what you want it to do.

There was also a post that mentioned the number of mundane tricks it could learn (excluding bonus ones from being a companion) going up, from 6 to 9. (3 per Int.)

Either way. The animal is now one capable of comprehending language. That's RAW. You now have a debate to handle between you and the GM as to how long it'd take to teach this creature to use that. After all, you yourself were trained practically from birth.


From Ultimate Campaign:

Quote:

Nonsentient Companions: A nonsentient companion (one with animal-level intelligence) is loyal to you in the way a well-trained dog is—the creature is conditioned to obey your commands, but its behavior is limited by its intelligence and it can't make altruistic moral decisions—such as nobly sacrificing itself to save another. Animal companions, cavalier mounts, and purchased creatures (such as common horses and guard dogs) fall into this category. In general they're GM-controlled companions. You can direct them using the Handle Animal skill, but their specific behavior is up to the GM.

Sentient Companions: A sentient companion (a creature that can understand language and has an Intelligence score of at least 3) is considered your ally and obeys your suggestions and orders to the best of its ability. It won't necessarily blindly follow a suicidal order, but it has your interests at heart and does what it can to keep you alive. Paladin bonded mounts, familiars, and cohorts fall into this category, and are usually player-controlled companions.


The Archive wrote:

From Ultimate Campaign:

Quote:

Nonsentient Companions: A nonsentient companion (one with animal-level intelligence) is loyal to you in the way a well-trained dog is—the creature is conditioned to obey your commands, but its behavior is limited by its intelligence and it can't make altruistic moral decisions—such as nobly sacrificing itself to save another. Animal companions, cavalier mounts, and purchased creatures (such as common horses and guard dogs) fall into this category. In general they're GM-controlled companions. You can direct them using the Handle Animal skill, but their specific behavior is up to the GM.

Sentient Companions: A sentient companion (a creature that can understand language and has an Intelligence score of at least 3) is considered your ally and obeys your suggestions and orders to the best of its ability. It won't necessarily blindly follow a suicidal order, but it has your interests at heart and does what it can to keep you alive. Paladin bonded mounts, familiars, and cohorts fall into this category, and are usually player-controlled companions.

From the same page:

Intelligent Animals

Increasing an animal's Intelligence to 3 or higher means it is smart enough to understand a language. However, unless an awaken spell is used, the animal doesn't automatically and instantly learn a language, any more than a human child does. The animal must be taught a language, usually over the course of months, giving it the understanding of the meaning of words and sentences beyond its trained responses to commands like "attack" and "heel."

Even if the animal is taught to understand a language, it probably lacks the anatomy to actually speak (unless awaken is used). For example, dogs, elephants, and even gorillas lack the proper physiology to speak humanoid languages, though they can use their limited "vocabulary" of sounds to articulate concepts, especially if working with a person who learns what the sounds mean.

An intelligent animal is smart enough to use tools, but might lack the ability to manipulate them. A crow could be able to use simple lockpicks, but a dog can't. Even if the animal is physically capable of using a tool, it might still prefer its own natural body to manufactured items, especially when it comes to weapons. An intelligent gorilla could hold or wield a sword, but its inclination is to make slam attacks. No amount of training (including weapon proficiency feats) is going to make it fully comfortable attacking in any other way.

Even if an animal's Intelligence increases to 3 or higher, you must still use the Handle Animal skill to direct the animal, as it is a smart animal rather than a low-intelligence person (using awaken is an exception—an awakened animal takes orders like a person). The GM should take the animal's Intelligence into account when determining its response to commands or its behavior when it doesn't have specific instructions. For example, an intelligent wolf companion can pick the weakest-looking target if directed to do so, and that same wolf trapped in a burning building might push open a door or window without being told.

Grand Lodge

An animal doesn't gain any languages as racial abilities. If it gets an Intelligence of 12 or a rank in Linguistics, it learns a bonus language. It still needs the proper anatomy before it can speak the language.


I think Calth closed the lid on this one. /hat tip.

Grand Lodge

Thanks, I wasn't asking so I could disregard the handle animal checks but rather so I could just talk to him and have him understand.


claudekennilol wrote:
Thanks, I wasn't asking so I could disregard the handle animal checks but rather so I could just talk to him and have him understand.

I think you can safely use simple commands and recognizable nouns.

"Fetch my sword"- when you are ambushed while you left your weapons in the other room
"Find Cathy"- A known, and possibly introduced, npc that has gone mysteriously missing (bonus since you might have to introduce everyone to your wolf- which makes you into an annoying dog owner. Good roleplaying).
"Eat the fat one first"- ambush my the lazy and corrupt local lord.

Stuff like that seems like it would not be too much of a problem. Just don't give it complicated commands or directions.


On thge other hand if the Animals Int score reaches 10+ I think you have to be kidding yourself to think it wouldn't be perfectly capable of acting on conversational suggestions, even if not directed at them. Handle Animal is a moot skill requirement at that point.

Grand Lodge

Stephen Ede wrote:
On thge other hand if the Animals Int score reaches 10+ I think you have to be kidding yourself to think it wouldn't be perfectly capable of acting on conversational suggestions, even if not directed at them. Handle Animal is a moot skill requirement at that point.

A reasonable GM might say as much, but the book trivializes Handle Animal at no point of intelligence.


Stephen Ede wrote:
On thge other hand if the Animals Int score reaches 10+ I think you have to be kidding yourself to think it wouldn't be perfectly capable of acting on conversational suggestions, even if not directed at them. Handle Animal is a moot skill requirement at that point.

How often did wilbur get mr ed to do what he wanted though?

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